comparing the 129-137-146

[STAIN]

Had the chance to ride my new Riot yesterday. I took it down to the field to run some laps and break in the motor.
It has been quite a while since I owned a sled with an un-coupled suspension. I have been on Pro-Cross 129's and 137's for the past 11 years. This is my first 146.
I rode it just as it came from the dealer, no adjustments. I was able to ride two 137's yesterday also for comparison.
A few observations--
Traction!!! Man, when this thing gets some bite, it bites hard!
Uncoupled skid really transfers some weight. The ski's come up unlike the 137's.
The limiter strap was at full loose from the dealer. I think I may pull it so it will be just barely loose like I do on the 137's and 129's. This should tame some of the ski lift. I don't like to pull the strap too far and limit shock travel. I don't want to get rid of all its ability to lift the front, just be able to control it.
One thing I didn't anticipate was how soft it is. Too soft. I was able to crash through all of the suspension travel on some medium rollers. Even when adjusting the shocks to stiffer settings I was still able to reach the bottom of travel. I am guessing with the uncoupled skid, I will have to run some stiffer spring preloads than I am used to.
Ease of steering. Strangely it steers easier than both of the EPS 137's I rode. I don't know if it is the ski/skag combo or chassis, but it is noticeable and was mentioned by my friend also.
iAct and the shocks. I really don't like this system. Some do, but it is not for me. I am not a huge fan of the QS3's anyway. I will trail ride it stock a few times then I will be removing the shocks and the wiring and installing my Elka's.
I was on the fence on these Riot's and XTX's because of the electric shock system. IF the shocks were the ones on the RR's and LE's (QS3R's) , then I may have a different view. I am envious of the shock combo Mr. sled fashioned for his iQs system.
Side note. I did ride a new 9000 RR yesterday. THAT shock/spring package, QS3R's with dual rate FTS spring, is pretty sweet.
I really like the taller seat and bar combo.
RPM's where low, @ 8600. I feel they will climb as the engine breaks in. They will also climb when it gets a new tune.
The 998T does 998T things, which is the whole reason for buying this combo in the first place. A tune is in the near future.
All in all, I think it will be a comfortable, fast sled once I get it set up how I like it. I know it will never be as flat as my 137's and 129's but I knew that going in.
I bought it because of Yamaha's departure from the market and the uncertainty of Arctic Cat at the time. I figured if I wanted one last 998T, this may be my last chance.

 

[Turboflash]

Most guys with these sleds report low stock RPM. Most say stock weights are a couple grams too heavy.

 

[STAIN]

I knew that going in. I figure a 240 tune and a Timken belt will put my RPM’s right in the ballpark

 

[number1kyster]

If you had a clean slate, what would you go with?

 

[KnappAttack]

I knew that going in. I figure a 240 tune and a Timken belt will put my RPM’s right in the ballpark

Just a FYI. The 240 tune will get it up where it belongs. The Ultimate belt will bring it back down low again. Seen it on the Cat RIOT 9000's like this before.

 

[putz21]

Good comparison Stain on the differences between the sleds.

Had the chance to ride my new Riot yesterday. I took it down to the field to run some laps and break in the motor.
It has been quite a while since I owned a sled with an un-coupled suspension. I have been on Pro-Cross 129's and 137's for the past 11 years. This is my first 146.
I rode it just as it came from the dealer, no adjustments. I was able to ride two 137's yesterday also for comparison.
A few observations--
Traction!!! Man, when this thing gets some bite, it bites hard!
Uncoupled skid really transfers some weight. The ski's come up unlike the 137's.
The limiter strap was at full loose from the dealer. I think I may pull it so it will be just barely loose like I do on the 137's and 129's. This should tame some of the ski lift. I don't like to pull the strap too far and limit shock travel. I don't want to get rid of all its ability to lift the front, just be able to control it.
One thing I didn't anticipate was how soft it is. Too soft. I was able to crash through all of the suspension travel on some medium rollers. Even when adjusting the shocks to stiffer settings I was still able to reach the bottom of travel. I am guessing with the uncoupled skid, I will have to run some stiffer spring preloads than I am used to.
Ease of steering. Strangely it steers easier than both of the EPS 137's I rode. I don't know if it is the ski/skag combo or chassis, but it is noticeable and was mentioned by my friend also.
iAct and the shocks. I really don't like this system. Some do, but it is not for me. I am not a huge fan of the QS3's anyway. I will trail ride it stock a few times then I will be removing the shocks and the wiring and installing my Elka's.
I was on the fence on these Riot's and XTX's because of the electric shock system. IF the shocks were the ones on the RR's and LE's (QS3R's) , then I may have a different view. I am envious of the shock combo Mr. sled fashioned for his iQs system.
Side note. I did ride a new 9000 RR yesterday. THAT shock/spring package, QS3R's with dual rate FTS spring, is pretty sweet.
I really like the taller seat and bar combo.
RPM's where low, @ 8600. I feel they will climb as the engine breaks in. They will also climb when it gets a new tune.
The 998T does 998T things, which is the whole reason for buying this combo in the first place. A tune is in the near future.
All in all, I think it will be a comfortable, fast sled once I get it set up how I like it. I know it will never be as flat as my 137's and 129's but I knew that going in.
I bought it because of Yamaha's departure from the market and the uncertainty of Arctic Cat at the time. I figured if I wanted one last 998T, this may be my last chance.

Good comparison Stain on the differences between the sleds. I'm not sure if the Riot is valved differently than the XTX or not, but I absolutely love the valving on the rear with the IQS. The ride is so damn smooth. Now, for this year I put the Kashima QS3R's with IQS on the Front including Elka Dual Rate Springs. I have the Kashima QS3 w/Dual Rate springs for the Center shock. For the Rear shock, I just ordered the Hygear upgrade kit to upgrade the Rear shock to Kashima QS3R, but haven't gotten it back yet. I absolutely love my setup on the XTX. Trails got pretty rough on Saturday, so switched to Firm on the fly and it just pounded through the moguls way better than my 137" can. I feel it's the perfect sled for me with Power Steering on the '25 XTX, Kashima QS3R's and iQS. I absolutely love the transfer of the XTX. Now that I have the Elka Dual Rate springs on the Front QS3R's, my XTX stays super flat.

BTW, your rear Elka shock won't fit on the Riot as it's a different length. I have Elka Stage 5's on my other 137" and was hoping to swap them onto the XTX, but since I couldn't do the Rear Shock, so I went a different path with the Kashima QS3R's w/iQS and very happy with the result.

Glad you were able to get out for a rip on your new Riot.

 

[STAIN]

If you had a clean slate, what would you go with?

Do you mean a “do over”? For a new sled?or if I could customize one from the factory?

Just a FYI. The 240 tune will get it up where it belongs. The Ultimate belt will bring it back down low again. Seen it on the Cat RIOT 9000's like this before.

the last 2020 Tcat I helped tune with an Adapt primary upgrade and a 240ss Sm tune was a little high,@9100 rpm out the back with a timken belt and stock weights. I was making my assumption on that.

BTW, your rear Elka shock won't fit on the Riot as it's a different length. I have Elka Stage 5's on my other 137" and was hoping to swap them onto the XTX, but since I couldn't do the Rear Shock, so I went a different path with the Kashima QS3R's w/iQS and very happy with the result.

Glad you were able to get out for a rip on your new Riot.

I already have sent out the rear Elka shock to Hygear to be adapted to the 146 skid. In fact, it should be on its way back to me now. I sent them all out for a rebuild and revalve for this 146 chassis

 

[KnappAttack]

the last 2020 Tcat I helped tune with an Adapt primary upgrade and a 240ss Sm tune was a little high,@9100 rpm out the back with a timken belt and stock weights. I was making my assumption on that.

Not what I have seen here, but because you cats are in the eastern states, I don’t doubt it at all. You have much better air there loaded with better oxygen and closer to sea level as well, they make more boost easier. I’ve seen that on different eastern folks logs a the 998s and saw it when I was racing out that way too. Our drags sleds would always need more fuel put in them and would run 1-2 tenths quicker easily the further and closer we’d go east. Consider yourselves lucky in that regard and it completely slipped my mind till you mentioned this.

 

[STAIN]

Not what I have seen here, but because you cats are in the eastern states, I don’t doubt it at all. You have much better air there loaded with better oxygen and closer to sea level as well, they make more boost easier. I’ve seen that on different eastern folks logs a the 998s and saw it when I was racing out that way too. Our drags sleds would always need more fuel put in them and would run 1-2 tenths quicker easily the further and closer we’d go east. Consider yourselves lucky in that regard and it completely slipped my mind till you mentioned this.

Interesting.
On another note, did you notice if the stock Cat Adapt weight and the Dalton weight have similar profiles? If when putting an adjustable weight in an Adapt is this a consideration?
I am kind of amazed that the Adapt takes so much less weight than the TEAM to achieve the same results. In my limited time with both, it seems to be @7 grams. Is this a result of a more aggressive shift profile on the stock Adapt weight? The crank center line distance to the clutch weight can't be that different can it? The RX-1 and Newer Sidewinder clutch weight requirement wasn't that much different, if at all in some cases, and they claimed the Sidewinder weight was farther away than the RX-1 weight from the crank center line.
I am actually looking forward to using these Cat clutch's. Something different. I do like the self tension secondary.

 

[Woody255]

I bought a Riot 9000 last year, after having a 19 XTX-LE and a Tcat. This Riot is my favourite sled I’ve ever had, to date. I love the 146. Tons of weight transfer, nice ride and I enjoy the iACT options for my riding. After a couple hundred miles I added the Hurricane SS bundle. I did not include closed loop or air intake on this one. I would struggle to buy another sled without EPS now. For me, it’s a game changer. Zero complaints from me after about a thousand miles now.

 

[STAIN]

To add some perspective on my criticism of the stock shocks, I have been critical of every stock shock/spring set up I have had since my First RX-1. I have revalved or changed almost every stock shock and spring and or skid/arms in the last 20 years.
I am always looking for perfection in my suspension set-ups, most of the time to the detriment to my wallet.
I will get this Riot to my liking no doubt. I am looking forward to it.

 

[number1kyster]

Do you mean a “do over”? For a new sled?or if I could customize one from the factory?

I meant, if you were shopping for another new 998T, which would you choose now that you have ridden them all.

 

[STAIN]

I would still get an XTX or Riot. My view may change after a full year on the trails BUT I haven't come across anyone who dislikes the 146.
An XTX LE or a Riot RR would be cool though....

 

[Turboflash]

Interesting.
On another note, did you notice if the stock Cat Adapt weight and the Dalton weight have similar profiles? If when putting an adjustable weight in an Adapt is this a consideration?
I am kind of amazed that the Adapt takes so much less weight than the TEAM to achieve the same results. In my limited time with both, it seems to be @7 grams. Is this a result of a more aggressive shift profile on the stock Adapt weight? The crank center line distance to the clutch weight can't be that different can it? The RX-1 and Newer Sidewinder clutch weight requirement wasn't that much different, if at all in some cases, and they claimed the Sidewinder weight was farther away than the RX-1 weight from the crank center line.
I am actually looking forward to using these Cat clutch's. Something different. I

Interesting.
On another note, did you notice if the stock Cat Adapt weight and the Dalton weight have similar profiles? If when putting an adjustable weight in an Adapt is this a consideration?
I am kind of amazed that the Adapt takes so much less weight than the TEAM to achieve the same results. In my limited time with both, it seems to be @7 grams. Is this a result of a more aggressive shift profile on the stock Adapt weight? The crank center line distance to the clutch weight can't be that different can it? The RX-1 and Newer Sidewinder clutch weight requirement wasn't that much different, if at all in some cases, and they claimed the Sidewinder weight was farther away than the RX-1 weight from the crank center line.
I am actually looking forward to using these Cat clutch's. Something different. I do like the self tension secondary.

Interesting.
On another note, did you notice if the stock Cat Adapt weight and the Dalton weight have similar profiles? If when putting an adjustable weight in an Adapt is this a consideration?
I am kind of amazed that the Adapt takes so much less weight than the TEAM to achieve the same results. In my limited time with both, it seems to be @7 grams. Is this a result of a more aggressive shift profile on the stock Adapt weight? The crank center line distance to the clutch weight can't be that different can it? The RX-1 and Newer Sidewinder clutch weight requirement wasn't that much different, if at all in some cases, and they claimed the Sidewinder weight was farther away than the RX-1 weight from the crank center line.
I am actually looking forward to using these Cat clutch's. Something different. I do like the self tension secondary.

It has to be difference in the diameter the weights are on. From my limited experience, it seems it could be more than 7 grams.
For example: Team primary on a PEFI Stage 3R tune (300 HP) takes close to 80 grams (x3 = 240 grams) (secondary with stock spring (155/220) and a 52-46 progressive helix).
Same sled with ADAPT on PEFI Stage 4 (320 HP) takes about 72 grams (x 3 = 216 grams). Secondary with 58-50 progressive helix with stock spring again.
So secondaries not allot different but primary needs 8 grams less (per arm = 24 grams less) for 20 more HP.

 

[STAIN]

After doing some research on the springs on this Riot, I am beginning to see why it so soft.
Front springs are 95lbs. Even the T-Cat has a 90/145 dual rate front spring.
FTS spring is the same 90/250 dual rate they have put on everything forever.
Rear springs are the 16 lb springs they put on the ZR's. I think LTX'S have 18lb springs in the rear but cannot confirm.
With the rear being uncoupled, therefore unable to share spring rate between the 2 track shocks, makes for a pretty soft ride with the same springs they put on coupled skids.
Not complaining, just learning.
My re-worked Elka's showed up yesterday. I will go on one trail ride stock and then switch over to see the difference.