Darting problem? 07 Vector...

[06apexrtx]

last year i put a set of dually's on my ER apex and hated them in corners as they pushed extremly bad. yes her sled is an 07 vector GT.

 

[Groomerdriver]

last year i put a set of dually's on my ER apex and hated them in corners as they pushed extremly bad. yes her sled is an 07 vector GT.

Different skis? - Woody's Slim Jims? - Stud Boy Duece Bars?

I tried a pair of Precisions and hated them. I can't afford to buy ski after ski to find one that works best. I stayed with the Doolies and are dealing with the pushing. The Slim Jims sound better...and IMO...a Vector shouldn't push as bad as an Apex.

 

[Fusion]

I'll tell you what, after all the reading I did on here, I was expecting a Vector that pushed, darted and handled like a dump truck with worn ball joints. People on this site could not have been more incorrect. I am sorry, people apparently have no experience with sleds and think a sled should handle like a Corvette at 75 MPH into a turn. I will pay less attention to the fear mongering on here in the future. There is quite simply NO problem with the stock skis on this sled, at least in 2009.

My '09 Vector GT, with standard carbides, and 120 studs down the middle, and my own suspension setup on front and rear, handles nearly perfectly right out of the garage, with absolutely NO ski darting. The only comment I will make is, you can overpower the stock carbides with the 120 studs, if hitting a corner really hard. But you can expect this with any sled. Truth be told, I don't know for sure if it was the icy corners or the sled itself, but for the most part, this sled was very nimble for the riding I did last week. This is a pretty impressive sled. When early season conditions are done, I'll add the 6" Stud Boy Shaper bars on it. Maybe they had problems with early versions of the Vector, I don't know, but they sure did something right with the '09. I just don't get all the criticism. I am anxiously awaiting someone else with an '09 to confirm what I'm saying, or else tell me they are having handling problems, but for right not, this is a fine handling sled. Even the wife had NO complaints about the handling whatsoever.

My only complaint is, this sled is pretty heavy when trying to get it on a set of sled dolleys. No doubt about the excessive weight, but you don't feel it on the trail.

 

[06apexrtx]

you do realize that in 08' they changed the design of the vector to the delta box II ckid like the apex right? that being said you must not push it very hard in tight corners as the ski lift is there on both style models. as far as darting goes its again on both models as the skis are the same. i have both sleds and have ridden both w/ stock skis and they both would dart(follow in someone elses ski tracks) pretty bad. w/ my apex the simmons skis fixed that and the wifes vector i put the 6" shaper bars(turn extremly good on ice,hardpack for sure) w/ shimming and it still will dart some. what are running for adjustments on your sled.

 

[SRX Maine]

I'll tell you what, after all the reading I did on here, I was expecting a Vector that pushed, darted and handled like a dump truck with worn ball joints. People on this site could not have been more incorrect. I am sorry, people apparently have no experience with sleds and think a sled should handle like a Corvette at 75 MPH into a turn. I will pay less attention to the fear mongering on here in the future. There is quite simply NO problem with the stock skis on this sled, at least in 2009.

My '09 Vector GT, with standard carbides, and 120 studs down the middle, and my own suspension setup on front and rear, handles nearly perfectly right out of the garage, with absolutely NO ski darting. The only comment I will make is, you can overpower the stock carbides with the 120 studs, if hitting a corner really hard. But you can expect this with any sled. Truth be told, I don't know for sure if it was the icy corners or the sled itself, but for the most part, this sled was very nimble for the riding I did last week. This is a pretty impressive sled. When early season conditions are done, I'll add the 6" Stud Boy Shaper bars on it. Maybe they had problems with early versions of the Vector, I don't know, but they sure did something right with the '09. I just don't get all the criticism. I am anxiously awaiting someone else with an '09 to confirm what I'm saying, or else tell me they are having handling problems, but for right not, this is a fine handling sled. Even the wife had NO complaints about the handling whatsoever.

My only complaint is, this sled is pretty heavy when trying to get it on a set of sled dolleys. No doubt about the excessive weight, but you don't feel it on the trail.

Yeah, Didn't you hear, all TY members own stocks in aftermarket ski & skeg companies...

Just kidding.

I'd like to know what they fixed in 09 to correct the darting.
My stock 07 Rage GT was decent in the twisties, but darted dangerously bad on the straights.
Put the doolies on and it was perfect on the straights & then got a dangerous push in the corners.
Added a little front spring rate and shortened the limiter strap one hole and the sled was about half right (better)
Now I'm putting a set of Bergstorm's skegs & Ski$savers & shimming with a 3/16th thick shim.
I'll let you know.

But have to a agree, other than the darting, best sled I've owed yet

 

[Fusion]

you do realize that in 08' they changed the design of the vector to the delta box II ckid like the apex right? that being said you must not push it very hard in tight corners as the ski lift is there on both style models. as far as darting goes its again on both models as the skis are the same. i have both sleds and have ridden both w/ stock skis and they both would dart(follow in someone elses ski tracks) pretty bad. w/ my apex the simmons skis fixed that and the wifes vector i put the 6" shaper bars(turn extremly good on ice,hardpack for sure) w/ shimming and it still will dart some. what are running for adjustments on your sled.

Ski lift - yes, there was some, but again, that varies quite a bit depending on the bump in the corner, and banking of snow. This is all quite unpredictable. How anyone can expect a sled, operating in such variable conditions to handle perfectly in all environments is beyond me. You are on a sled, not a Corvette on concrete. I think I noticed ski lift a couple of times over the 3 times I was out last week, but nothing significant that couldn't be explained by conditions. Talk about inside ski lift, ride some of the late 90's MXZ's or Formula 's, now that was ski lift. The variablity of handling is all part of the mystique of riding, at least in my opinion.

Yeah, OK, I don't hammer every corner of a PUBLIC trail like I'm some ricky rocket racer - true. But why would you want to? If you're riding like that, you get a Nytro - no? Or better yet, get on the circuit and run sno-X or cross country.

Sorry, I like the sled, at least at this point, as far as handling goes. I will know more on the next trip with better conditions, less traffic, and more aggressive riding, but I think I put the hammer down enough to know this sled was every bit as good as my IQ 600 LX CFI with M10. It actually handled better to steering inputs, not as sluggish, but the LX rode a touch softer, as should be expected with the M10. But the ride was not that much different between the Vector GT and the IQ LX, at least not enough that I'd want an M10 in the Vector and have to pay to get it.

Setup - I could bore you with the exact details, but the bottom line is, it was pretty much in the middle of the adjustability range, front and rear, with a slight bias toward firm/hard on the rear shock and clickers, with no change to limiter strap. If you want the exact settings on the clickers I'd have to check it because I don't remember without looking at my notes, but I think I went a couple of clicks toward firm on uppers and lowers, and one notch toward hard (position 5?) on the rear shock.

One more thing regarding darting....I had a 95 XLT, back in my trailering days, I would hit the lip of the trailer all the time when loading, and knock the ski's out of alignment. Happened so much I quit taking running starts at the trailer, because I'd be out there in the cold realigning the ski's. When ski's are misaligned, you feel scary darting, so I know the feeling. Not saying this is the problem, but you can't hammer a ski on a fixed object, just like you can't hit curbs with car tires, or you start knocking stuff out of alignment and messing up your handling. Fortunately, I don't trailer anymore so I don't have have to worry about it.

 

[06apexrtx]

not trying to down play your opinion by any means. the 07' vector is the sled my wife drives and this is her first sled and she even notices the ski lift which scares the hell out of her and she is not going real fast into the corners for sure. my self on my apex i know how bad it lifts as i compare it to my 90's polaris trailig arms as being about as bad. now my old 97' sx 700 was graeat w/ no ski lift. im just trying to get some ideas on my next step for her sled in the adjusting department. i have a set of ber. carbides w/ the saves i'll put on my skis and put them on her sled to try to see if theres any differnce w/out telling her so she wont know what to expect to see if its any better in the darting area. i dont expect to be riding in the vet when in on the sleds but yamies have a wide range of adjustemnts to help w/ most all condtions so we should be able to get it close to being on the money for sure. im glad you are enjoying your 09' and find it just about right. enjoy and be safe.

 

[Groomerdriver]

you do realize that in 08' they changed the design of the vector to the delta box II ckid like the apex right? that being said you must not push it very hard in tight corners as the ski lift is there on both style models. as far as darting goes its again on both models as the skis are the same. i have both sleds and have ridden both w/ stock skis and they both would dart(follow in someone elses ski tracks) pretty bad. w/ my apex the simmons skis fixed that and the wifes vector i put the 6" shaper bars(turn extremly good on ice,hardpack for sure) w/ shimming and it still will dart some. what are running for adjustments on your sled.

Ski lift - yes, there was some, but again, that varies quite a bit depending on the bump in the corner, and banking of snow. This is all quite unpredictable. How anyone can expect a sled, operating in such variable conditions to handle perfectly in all environments is beyond me. You are on a sled, not a Corvette on concrete. I think I noticed ski lift a couple of times over the 3 times I was out last week, but nothing significant that couldn't be explained by conditions. Talk about inside ski lift, ride some of the late 90's MXZ's or Formula 's, now that was ski lift. The variablity of handling is all part of the mystique of riding, at least in my opinion.

Yeah, OK, I don't hammer every corner of a PUBLIC trail like I'm some ricky rocket racer - true. But why would you want to? If you're riding like that, you get a Nytro - no? Or better yet, get on the circuit and run sno-X or cross country.

Sorry, I like the sled, at least at this point, as far as handling goes. I will know more on the next trip with better conditions, less traffic, and more aggressive riding, but I think I put the hammer down enough to know this sled was every bit as good as my IQ 600 LX CFI with M10. It actually handled better to steering inputs, not as sluggish, but the LX rode a touch softer, as should be expected with the M10. But the ride was not that much different between the Vector GT and the IQ LX, at least not enough that I'd want an M10 in the Vector and have to pay to get it.

Setup - I could bore you with the exact details, but the bottom line is, it was pretty much in the middle of the adjustability range, front and rear, with a slight bias toward firm/hard on the rear shock and clickers, with no change to limiter strap. If you want the exact settings on the clickers I'd have to check it because I don't remember without looking at my notes, but I think I went a couple of clicks toward firm on uppers and lowers, and one notch toward hard (position 5?) on the rear shock.

One more thing regarding darting....I had a 95 XLT, back in my trailering days, I would hit the lip of the trailer all the time when loading, and knock the ski's out of alignment. Happened so much I quit taking running starts at the trailer, because I'd be out there in the cold realigning the ski's. When ski's are misaligned, you feel scary darting, so I know the feeling. Not saying this is the problem, but you can't hammer a ski on a fixed object, just like you can't hit curbs with car tires, or you start knocking stuff out of alignment and messing up your handling. Fortunately, I don't trailer anymore so I don't have have to worry about it.

Your sled had the Mono skid which is about as close to an M10 ride as there is. My 05 didn't have the Mono. THe stock skid in the 05 rode like a late 80's Polaris. Sounds like you know how those rode.

Your 09 has the Delta Box 2 chassis. Put some quality miles on a Delta Box 1 chassis, and you'll better understand the complaints about lift, push and the skis.

These sleds have a higher CoG which make them prone to being tippy. Give me a lower CoG sled with less weight and I'll beat you in corners any day and Sundays.

Glad to hear you now like your sled. You sounded like to were ready to dump it even before you rode it.

 

[Groomerdriver]

not trying to down play your opinion by any means. the 07' vector is the sled my wife drives and this is her first sled and she even notices the ski lift which scares the hell out of her and she is not going real fast into the corners for sure. my self on my apex i know how bad it lifts as i compare it to my 90's polaris trailig arms as being about as bad. now my old 97' sx 700 was graeat w/ no ski lift. im just trying to get some ideas on my next step for her sled in the adjusting department. i have a set of ber. carbides w/ the saves i'll put on my skis and put them on her sled to try to see if theres any differnce w/out telling her so she wont know what to expect to see if its any better in the darting area. i dont expect to be riding in the vet when in on the sleds but yamies have a wide range of adjustemnts to help w/ most all condtions so we should be able to get it close to being on the money for sure. im glad you are enjoying your 09' and find it just about right. enjoy and be safe.

Can't tell you what to do with the Mono skid as to lift, but I can tell you that tightening up on the front ski springs (1/2 way or more tighter) made a big difference on my lift. I've always said that the stock springs are too light. Pioneer makes a heavier spring for the front.

People say go to a thicker sway bar. Haven't done this because the front end already is "stiff"...a heavier swaybar will make it even stiffer. I'll compromise, but this is not a compromise that I will make.

 

[RageX2]

Groomerdriver, Pilots probably don't carve like a snowcross sled, but work very well. changes somewhat with conditions, like any ski. I now have Shaper bars on. Certainly much better than the duallys i tried on the stock skis. i hated them. they are still in the attic with 300 miles on them. Friends have put the same pilot kit on their Rages after trying mine and are very satisfied too. And yes, Pioneer Performance sells the kit for $239. p/n P-S129. expect about the same at doo dealer. doo p/n 860 200 165

 

[Fusion]

you do

Your sled had the Mono skid which is about as close to an M10 ride as there is. My 05 didn't have the Mono. THe stock skid in the 05 rode like a late 80's Polaris. Sounds like you know how those rode.

Your 09 has the Delta Box 2 chassis. Put some quality miles on a Delta Box 1 chassis, and you'll better understand the complaints about lift, push and the skis.

These sleds have a higher CoG which make them prone to being tippy. Give me a lower CoG sled with less weight and I'll beat you in corners any day and Sundays.

Glad to hear you now like your sled. You sounded like to were ready to dump it even before you rode it.

I'll buy that - about the diff between the '07 and '09 - '08.

But all the whining about darting really made me nervous, and assuming the ski's didn't change or the stock carbide, I was surprised the tracking could be that different.

 

[Groomerdriver]

you do

Your sled had the Mono skid which is about as close to an M10 ride as there is. My 05 didn't have the Mono. THe stock skid in the 05 rode like a late 80's Polaris. Sounds like you know how those rode.

Your 09 has the Delta Box 2 chassis. Put some quality miles on a Delta Box 1 chassis, and you'll better understand the complaints about lift, push and the skis.

These sleds have a higher CoG which make them prone to being tippy. Give me a lower CoG sled with less weight and I'll beat you in corners any day and Sundays.

Glad to hear you now like your sled. You sounded like to were ready to dump it even before you rode it.

I'll buy that - about the diff between the '07 and '09 - '08.

But all the whining about darting really made me nervous, and assuming the ski's didn't change or the stock carbide, I was surprised the tracking could be that different.

The stock carbides are still 3-4"? Wait till they wear down a bit and you have to put on new carbides. I hope everything remains the same after that.

 

[Fusion]

As I explained groomerdriver, I already have the shaper bars in my possesion, but I wasn't about to put them on right away with early season WI conditions. Let the base build up a bit and then I'll put on the new ones. Get some use out of the stock carbide. I had quite a number of alarmists tell me I had to junk them before I even used them, and this was flat out wrong advice. It wouldn't be the first time I wore down a carbide - no biggie.

 

[Groomerdriver]

As I explained groomerdriver, I already have the shaper bars in my possesion, but I wasn't about to put them on right away with early season WI conditions. Let the base build up a bit and then I'll put on the new ones. Get some use out of the stock carbide. I had quite a number of alarmists tell me I had to junk them before I even used them, and this was flat out wrong advice. It wouldn't be the first time I wore down a carbide - no biggie.

Enjoy your sled......................

 

[grubf]

Just got home with my new Woody's Doolys. Should have read this post first. I already have them out of the package so I am married to them. They are 6" and will be used on an '07 Vector ER. I am shimming my stoppers as per Bergstrom post on tech. Pushing seems to be the common complaint. Since I have nothing to lose do you people think that I could reduce the snowplow effect if I were to grind off the first 4 inches of the runners on both sides right up to the point the real carbide starts? This would get rid of aprox 1/3 of the area that is contributing to the pushing. Or is this the dumbest thing you have ever heard? Thanks.