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ECP Jetting?

R

Racerboy

Newbie
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
16
With much talking about the K&N's, I have just been wondering about this for my own piece of mind. I believe that the filters work, but put that aside. Right now I am wondering about the jetting provided with the kit. Some people on here seem to be having better luck with richer jetting in their sleds and gaining even more performance. I am wondering why this is and also if perhaps the air in the shop where the dyno runs were done was much warmer that air we see on the trails. If the air was say 60 degrees in the shop, wouldnt the sled run better on the 165's, but then when it was put outside in the cold air run better on something richer? I am just wondering if this is a possibility as you all know more about this than I do. Please no flames, just a honest question I have been wondering about.
 

Racerboy...it's cool, you are allowed to ask questions...no problem. I have simple answer for you too.

Most current RX1 owners are ex 2 stroke guys. When the temperature changed 5 degree's with their old 2 strokes, they all panic and run for their tools and jet boards to change main jets. The 4 stroke RX1 is nowhere near as critical and the CV carburetors on the RX1 makes this even less sensitive.

I am still confident that most trail riders will get the best performance out of the 165 main jets in typical wintertime temperatures. Unless you are running long distance radar run style races at very cold temperatures you will find the 165 main jets fine. I'm afraid that the following statement might offend someone but I mean no disrespect...When someone states that their sled feels better to the seat of the pants with 170 main jets over 165's, they are only fooling themselves. One jet size difference in the same running temperatures "don't do squat" for performance! If anyone could actually feel a difference it is because something else changed when removing and reinstalling the carburetors, like synchronization or something. The brain in your #*$&@ is not as smart as the brain in your head.

To answer your question about the dyno room temperatures...An engine set up good for the dyno is too lean for the field. I use what we refer to as a LAMA test. (Less Air/More Air test) Once we get close on the dyno to our optimal jetting number, I put a rather high cubic feet per minute fan pointed directly at the carburetors. This simulates some machine movement. Going across a lake at 70-100 MPH provides massive air to your engine. Therefore, we have developed the technique of finding the optimum jetting range for the let's say 30 degrees F range in the dyno room that day and use a calculation to up jet for "in-the-field" running thereby allowing for the increased air movement you will realize while riding.

I knew once this past weekend at Otis Resevoir was over, I wuld be inundated with telephone calls and e-mails...and I am! I am here to state that we went out this weekend to try some high speed WOT throttle runs ONLY!!! We didn't care about trail mannerisms whatsoever. We needed to find the point of "what is too rich" and we didn't! I also received a telephone call from a ECP Air Kit customer yesterday that claims he rode this past weekend in minus 20 degree F temperatures with 165 main jets and his sled was absolutely flawless. This was his experience, yet there are people here who claim they need to run richer jets plus set their needle clips to full rich to realize a good running condition. Just goes to show you that each engine is it's own entity and you must tune for your sled characteristics and your riding style. There no 1 setting that will work flawlessly for everyone...simple as that. Tailoring your sled to your needs is the key.

I will not be able to tell you what jets I would run at minus 20 F becuase when it is that cold, I am in the hottub with another warm female body and 2 glasses of wine...sorry!

Freddie
 
To complement on Freddie's comments, If I may, this weekend it was very cold (-42C) with wind factor here in Québec city. Imagine doing between 30 to 80 miles an hour on a sled... I was out for about 200 miles and was really concerned if my sled was too lean with 165 jets and needle and fuel screws on stock position. After riding all day, at different speed I did not feel that my sled was running worst or better than at a warmer temperature. I reached a few times 170 km/h (106 MPH) on the speedo and the sled ran perfectly with no bug or hesitation at any RPM level. I did not have time to check my plugs yet to see if the color has changed from last time but I doubt so!

Again I don't know if my sled could run even better by richening...

Let's say I would like to ride my sled a little bit richer for comparison, should I start with the fuel screws or the needle :?:

An other thing, my fuel mileage (16 miles/gallon or 7 km/liter) is about the same whatever I ride my sled agressively or in touring mode :shock:

Just my 2 cents :D

P.S. Man! was it cold :( :( :(
 
First off, I'd like to say thank you Freddie! These filters are the best mod I have ever done to a sled! What a difference! I was out this weekend on the St. John river here in New Brunswick and did some WOT runs and some drag racing. The conditions were -20 c with -30c windchills.there was 2 feet of ice and about 2" of snow on it. I have the 165 mains, needles set at stock, Yellow springs and cr10ek plugs. I saw 130 mph on the speedo many times. My plugs were just fine, if anything a little rich looking. This was a good test, and it passed with flying colors. the biggest gain with this kit was getting to my top speed one hell of alot quicker. Oh, by the way, no problem with a 01 thundercat from start to finish!!!
 
Supertuner....nice investigative work.

I can't wait to get the filters and try them out. I have a few sleds that I have baselined with....so I can see if there is an improvement. We have a radar gun too...maybe I will set up some pilons too...just for kicks.
 
Just got back from 500 mile trip with filters for first time! Bottom end felt good but top end just quits pulling at 85ish! It was 5-10 deg most of the trip. I didn't have time to look or jack with plugs because of group size.

Whats everyones 1st guess lean or rich???

I'm running 165s, red springs, stock needles & settings!

THANKS!

BR
 
ECP jetting

My RX1 performed perfect on the lake last weekend at -20f wot . And averaged 15-16 mpg I have not removed the spark plugs after installing ECPfilters. no need to.I do not remember the last time I rejetted a Rochester carb for -20f . If this motor is to lean she will let you know long before you melt a piston.
 
BRX-1 said:
Just got back from 500 mile trip with filters for first time! Bottom end felt good but top end just quits pulling at 85ish! It was 5-10 deg most of the trip. Whats everyones 1st guess lean or rich???

I'm running 165s, red springs, stock needles & settings!

Neither...you have something else wrong. Running poor, you should easily be able to go faster than 85 MPH.
Click to expand...
 
supertuner did U ship mine yet? georgetown Ma O I can't wait to try this kit out I have one ? I ride In a lot of snow dust sometimes will this hurt any thing I hope not!

thanks
mike
 
BRX-1, I've read this same problem on other sites. The guys fixed the problem by installing new plugs. I know it seems wierd, but it worked. You would think if it was a plug problem it would show up on the low to mid range first. That is the reason I'm gonna install Iridium plugs. Denso or NGK, whichever I can get quicker. I'm finally heading north next week :D
 
This is Cubby the lawyer for the defense, Defendant=SUPERTUNER. You guys gotta remember the first dyno day. Freddie said that the stock sled got to about 9600 RPM and then the HP went slightly downward to the rev limiter. His kit helps the top end but it wont make your sled pull as strong as it does in the midrange. Again you wouldnt notice this with a stock sled because the whole power band sucks on a stock sled. The ECP kit is again just magnifying the now great midrange and it almost feels like it gets to like 10,000 RPMs and falls off, BUT IT'S NOT. Again look at the first dyno day post and look at the graphs posted by Ride Blue. For the record, I rode hard WOT for about 3 miles on a snow covered road in -4 degrees F and checked the plugs and they were light brown at the electrode and dark brown at the base of the plug. I am running, again, WHAT FREDDIE TOLD ME TO RUN ACCORDING TO MY RIDING STYLE AND CONDITIONS I RODE IN the 165 jets and the cr10ek plugs. But now in defense of the customer and Freddie, NOT EVERY RX-1 MOTOR RUNS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE NEXT. Here's proof of that, when I first got my sled last year I was being passed by other stock RX-1s. Hmmmmmm
 
HEY GUYS,

I'm running HH'S at about 10500-10600 WOT by the tach.

It runs fine until 85ish & it quits pulling hard! It will get to 100+ but it takes much longer than before!

Two weeks before on a trip, it would pull 120 easy without filters, red spring & 165s.

The plug change thing is interesting! I've never heard changing plugs helping top end but, who knows!?

I guess I'll try CR10EK plugs & see what happens!!!!

Also I have the burble at 5000-6000 R's & the dealer heard it & said it sounds like it is a rich condition to him!

THANKS GUYS!!

BR
 
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