garcenw
Veteran
There are a few threads scattered about regarding this. For those that have tried the Excell 6 wheel or 8 wheel kit, how have your rails fared? I figured we can collect this all in one place. If you don't mind, let us know the following:
1) Your approximate miles with the kit installed?
2) What was your improvement in hyfax wear?
3) What kind of conditions you ride in (whooped trials, smooth trails, ditches, etc.)?
4) Did your rails crack?
If we get a large enough sample size, this will help others make a more informed decision regarding the kit and perhaps oversized wheels in general.
1) Your approximate miles with the kit installed?
2) What was your improvement in hyfax wear?
3) What kind of conditions you ride in (whooped trials, smooth trails, ditches, etc.)?
4) Did your rails crack?
If we get a large enough sample size, this will help others make a more informed decision regarding the kit and perhaps oversized wheels in general.
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sloan188
Expert
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
- Messages
- 255
- Location
- Vaudreuil, QC
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2005 Polaris Fusion 900
2009 Nytro XTX
2010 Ski Doo GSX LE 1200
1. lots - maybe 16000km
2. haven't changed since installed - 16000km
3. quebec trails mostly smooth with occassional whooped sections running with tric scratchers down all the time
4. no
2. haven't changed since installed - 16000km
3. quebec trails mostly smooth with occassional whooped sections running with tric scratchers down all the time
4. no
jimbur
Expert
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2013
- Messages
- 204
- Location
- Bernville Pa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 09 NYTRO XTX
14 NYTRO XTX
08 NYTRO RTX
07 PHAZER
- LOCATION
- Pa.
1. 8500 mi.
2.duponts,same miles ,still like new
3.everything,scratchers when needed for cooling .
4. No
2.duponts,same miles ,still like new
3.everything,scratchers when needed for cooling .
4. No
garcenw
Veteran
Jimbur,
Have the Duponts been tough on your track clips?
Have the Duponts been tough on your track clips?
jimbur
Expert
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2013
- Messages
- 204
- Location
- Bernville Pa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 09 NYTRO XTX
14 NYTRO XTX
08 NYTRO RTX
07 PHAZER
- LOCATION
- Pa.
No wear that i can tell. I run my tracks loose as i have extros on both machines. Wifes has 8 skidoo wheels "136 inch" track and black slides. Very little slide wear setup that way.
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garcenw
Veteran
I took some measurements with my presently worn worn hyfax. My 2013 Nytro RTX SE's right side hyfax is worn down to ~15.3 mm under the OEM middle idler wheel. I didn't bother taking any pics as it was tough to get a good perspective with parallax issues.
1) I would assume that wheel has ~5300 miles on it as that is the mileage on the sled (I'm the 2nd owner). That idler measures out to 128.7 mm in diameter and presently sits ~ 4mm proud of the worn hyfax (it's tough to get a good measurement there as I don't have a good long enough rigid and flat bar to span the wheels, so I kind of eyeballed it).
2) The new Garland Hyfax I have measure out to 18.4 mm which is 3.1 mm thicker than the worn hyfax. Thus we would expect the wheels to sit 0.9 mm, lets call it ~1 mm, proud of new hyfax. I suspect a new unworn wheel would be closer to flush.
3) I measured my uninstalled Excell wheels and they were 135.8 mm. This makes them ~3.5 mm larger in radius than my OEM idler and thus they would sit ~4.5 mm proud of a fresh set of Garland hyfax.
So it seems that both OEM and Excell wheels sit proud of fresh hyfax, but new OEM wheels start out nearly flush, where the Excell wheels will always be proud and start out 4 - 5 mm proud of the hyfax. This increases your exposure time to high deflection wheel impacts over the course of a given set of hyfax’s life, thus increasing the likelihood of cracking a rail. With oversize wheels, especially after the hyfax wears substantially, an impact to a wheel can deflect said wheel a greater distance torsionally, when compared to an OEM wheel, before the hyfax shares the impact load. Greater torsion equals greater strain/stress and thus increases the risk of getting the rail to the point of the aluminum’s ultimate stress (i.e. stress at which failure occurs). I can't give hard numbers, but my engineering judgement says most will be OK, but the larger wheels increase the likelihood of a rail fracture over the life of the rail. That's not a revelation as it has been discussed in this forum in previous threads - it's just a slightly different explanation of the underlying factors in the risk assessment. In any event, let see where this poll leads.
1) I would assume that wheel has ~5300 miles on it as that is the mileage on the sled (I'm the 2nd owner). That idler measures out to 128.7 mm in diameter and presently sits ~ 4mm proud of the worn hyfax (it's tough to get a good measurement there as I don't have a good long enough rigid and flat bar to span the wheels, so I kind of eyeballed it).
2) The new Garland Hyfax I have measure out to 18.4 mm which is 3.1 mm thicker than the worn hyfax. Thus we would expect the wheels to sit 0.9 mm, lets call it ~1 mm, proud of new hyfax. I suspect a new unworn wheel would be closer to flush.
3) I measured my uninstalled Excell wheels and they were 135.8 mm. This makes them ~3.5 mm larger in radius than my OEM idler and thus they would sit ~4.5 mm proud of a fresh set of Garland hyfax.
So it seems that both OEM and Excell wheels sit proud of fresh hyfax, but new OEM wheels start out nearly flush, where the Excell wheels will always be proud and start out 4 - 5 mm proud of the hyfax. This increases your exposure time to high deflection wheel impacts over the course of a given set of hyfax’s life, thus increasing the likelihood of cracking a rail. With oversize wheels, especially after the hyfax wears substantially, an impact to a wheel can deflect said wheel a greater distance torsionally, when compared to an OEM wheel, before the hyfax shares the impact load. Greater torsion equals greater strain/stress and thus increases the risk of getting the rail to the point of the aluminum’s ultimate stress (i.e. stress at which failure occurs). I can't give hard numbers, but my engineering judgement says most will be OK, but the larger wheels increase the likelihood of a rail fracture over the life of the rail. That's not a revelation as it has been discussed in this forum in previous threads - it's just a slightly different explanation of the underlying factors in the risk assessment. In any event, let see where this poll leads.
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porkchop
TY 4 Stroke Master
I've run 6 Excell wheels for 4 seasons now & my sliders have reached a wear spot and stayed there the past 2 1/2 now (easily finish out this year), had to replace 4-5 bearings over that time being on some pretty danky conditions.
No rail issues.
No rail issues.
Snowman871
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2010
- Messages
- 278
- Location
- Woodville, WI
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2024 Polaris Assault 850
1. ~5,000 mi.
2. I installed Dupont slides around the same time as my wheel kit and the slides still look great
3. Mixed riding - I try to dip in the snow often or run scratchers on the real icy/low snow days
4. No cracks
Misc. notes
- I bought the wheel kit used and the bearings are definitely ready for a little TLC
- I was running a 1.75" track the whole time
2. I installed Dupont slides around the same time as my wheel kit and the slides still look great
3. Mixed riding - I try to dip in the snow often or run scratchers on the real icy/low snow days
4. No cracks
Misc. notes
- I bought the wheel kit used and the bearings are definitely ready for a little TLC
- I was running a 1.75" track the whole time
garcenw
Veteran
I put my 6 wheel kit on yesterday in addition to to adding Over the Top Performance ice scratchers to my skis. Hopefully I'll get another chance to ride this year and test them out.
So far 4 have answered the poll and those have had good outcomes.
So far 4 have answered the poll and those have had good outcomes.
jimbur
Expert
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2013
- Messages
- 204
- Location
- Bernville Pa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 09 NYTRO XTX
14 NYTRO XTX
08 NYTRO RTX
07 PHAZER
- LOCATION
- Pa.
Like myself it looks like you have a long way to travel to find good snow
garcenw
Veteran
I live just outside of DC in Bowie, MD and typically go to Old Forge, NY and Tug Hill, NY. I did a trip to Maine two years ago (there was no snow in NY) and the riding was great, but I hated the long drive. I also go out to Gallatin National Forest about once every 2 to 3 years, but in that case I just fly there and rent a trail sled in West Yellowstone.
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garcenw
Veteran
I happen to measure Yamaha OEM hyfax and Garland Hyfax. I took multiple measurements of of each. For what it's worth, the material thickness on the wear portion on the OEM units is a hair over 0.03" thicker than the Garland hyfax (0.40" vs. 0.37").
