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Joining the 4-stroke world, looking at Nytros

GudeMN

Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
41
Location
Twin Cities, MN
Country
USA
Snowmobile
2009 Nytro RTX SE (144in) -6500 miles
2015 Phazer XTX - 10,000 miles
2009 Vector LTX GT - 17,600 miles,
1999 Vmax 600 SX - 4500 miles,
1999 SRX 700 - 5100 miles,
2001 700SxR - 2200 miles
LOCATION
Twin Cities, MN
Hello all....I've been tending to a 5 sled fleet of 99-01, 2-stroke triples for awhile now and feel it's time to add some technology, ride capability, and comfort to my life.

I'm in MN and if I'm honest I ride 80+% trails. I like the idea of off-trail capabilities but it isn't really an option where I ride. My off-trail forays include drifts around the islands on the lake, ditches now and then, powerline right of ways, and the odd year where I need a snowmobile to finish out the deer archery season.

I think Nytros fit my style as I enjoy using a lot of body english to move my 700 SRX an Vmax 600 Sx through the corners. I know a Nytro will be a different animal but the deep snow and rough/ungroomed trail capabilities a Nytro has intrigues me.

Ultimately I am outfitting my family to ride with me. 2 kids on Phazers XTXs and I want 2 Nytros. I've been researching for months/years and have an idea of what upgrades and alterations are recommended for each. Focusing on the Nytro right now, in a perfect world, I would like one XTX and one RTX with a skid relocated to run a 128 track.

For now, I want to focus on acquiring an XTX. I've found a couple options in my area but I'd like some opinions and feedback on what to consider when looking at different model years, modifications that have or have not been installed, and how much mileage dictates price. I understand the Genesis motor doesn't die, so is a lower mileage motor really worth a lot more when it comes to price?

Right now I've got my eyes on an '09 with just over 1,ooo miles on it, priced in the $6000 range.
The track has been upgraded to a 1.75 Backcountry.
The sled has a wrap, new hyfax, new skis (no mention of what brand), new belt, etc. Mostly cosmetic stuff and no mention of handlebar relocate, tunnel reinforcement....performance stuff.

I also see a 2014 with 5,000 miles for $5000-ish, Upgrades listed included HID headlight, Rox riser and bars, windshield bag, upgraded bumper....again not a lot of structural mods. Being a 2014 I'm assuming the track is a 1.75, though I am not positive.

Another option is a 2010, with 4,000 miles, original Ripsaw track, for roughly $2500 less. That sled doesn't mention any other upgrades though I believe the tunnel has been reinforced, and it's sporting an aftermarket exhaust and seat by looking at pics.

I like the idea of the 2010 sled because the lower price leaves me a lot more $$$ to make a track change and structural/performance improvements with the higher mileage sled. I also like the 2010 over the 2014 due to having clickers on the suspension (maybe that's overrated???) I will definitely be looking to put a Mountaintech front end on whatever I end up with after the reading I've done on that topic. I believe the steering relocate seems to be important enough to make a priority as well. Because of my 80%+ spent on the trail, I think a 1.5 in. track might serve me better than a 1.75 in. But, on my current sleds I'm running the original .75 on the Vmax 600 and the .91 on the SRX so I don't know what I don't know. So, as you can tell from my rambling, I'm leaning towards the higher mileage sled at this point. How much does mileage matter?

Hit me with the good, the bad, and all the other things I haven't thought of yet!

Thanks in advance.
 

Hi....good informative post on your questions...I like it.

Personally, anyone of those sleds would be a good option. Although I always like the idea of lower mileage used toys, in the case of the Genesis triple, the mileage on the 3 yrs who are looking at wouldn't concern me. My 09 XTX just turned 8500 kms last wkend in Gaspe (5300+ miles). It was a 650 mile 3 day trip....-32°C each day...and zero issues for my 09.

HID lights are a MUST for the Nytro (or anything over the stock lights for night riding). The other upgrade you need is a skid plate...I've used the Yamaha full plastic skid plate for 8 yrs now, and used to ditch bang and powder ride for the first 5 or 6 yrs. That plate has held up great. No signs of oil filter damage when I inspect while changing my oil once a yr. MountainTech makes a superior skid plate...get one if you are going with his front end kit. Oil filters are in a bad spot for damage if running oem plate.

Steering relocate is a must (at least for me and many others).

1.5 is plenty if ur 80% trail riding...and still will work well off. I ran the 1.75 for 6 yrs, but swapped to a 1.6 ice cobra last yr. BC doesn't like a lot of hard packed or ice.

Get scratchers..you'll need em Nytros known for overheating with low snow conditions...although I seemed to conquer that isssue two yrs ago. Things I changed were, total coolant flush using Honda HP Coolant and a Viper snow flap. I used to overheat often before these changes...even with Dupont slides and bigger idler (135 mms wheels). I use Summit Seeker scratchers but have only used them once in last two yrs!

Replace your 3 of 4 relays in front of motor with solid state version...and replace ur starter relay beside battery or at least clean and dielec grease the one thats in there now. Carry a spare too. I replaced mine 6 yrs ago after sled wouldnt start on a nasty cold morning (relay froze/dirty/original w only 600 miles), new one put in and I clean contacts every yr and regrease. I also carry a spare. I have litterally seen guys take off their frozen relays and warm up inside/pour hot water on to thaw...and in one case witnessed a dude piss on his on a -35°C morning. My brother's Apex wouldnt start last wkend on a cold morning, and he came to me with the "what do I do now to start this thing?", question, lol.

Stock seats are low..but comfy. I have the WRP seat w 2" rise..but Im 6.3". It is waaaay better for me.

Check all ur front end bushings. Change out to oilite bushings if present ones are loose...which they prob are if stock.

Skiis are a personal choice...lots of options there.

Big windshield and side deflectors are a must in cold temps and/or long trips.

09's had BRUTAL handwarmers...newer models not much better. If you want warm hands, buy YamaHeaters and thumb warmers from Rockmeister on this site, and be done with it!! Plug n play. Stock heaters SUCK!!!!.

Keep ur battery fresh...clean clutches and keep ur skid bearings well greased every fall. Personally, I rebuild my skid every fall, and change my driveshaft and track shaft bearings every 3 yrs minimum. Overkill, probably...but I've seen Nytro and Apex owners have driveshaft bearing failures....and they weren't in their warm, toasty shops when they failed...not good.

Clean and inspect chain case while changing ur case oil every yr, takrs a little time...but very simple to do.

And last bit of advise is to install the Star Relocate kit on the rear suspension...a game changer for comfort and performance on the Nytro skid...easy install if you like to work on ur own stuff.

I was recently offer $6500 Cnd for my 09 Nytro, and said no thanks. I honestly have NO clue what I'd be happy replacing her with.

My reply may be longer than your post....lol

Enjoy the hunt...and ur new Nytro!!!
 
mp5....thanks much for the indepth response. That's the kind of information I'm looking for!!
 
I have been happy with my 2010 nytro xtx with 1.75 backcountry track, snow trackers on stock skis- I have not had any issues with the relays or other issues mentioned— bought the sled from a TY guy with 7000 miles on it—- have gone through everything on it ...and now at 8700 miles— would consider selling to upgrade to newer as my riding friends have sidewinders, but this nytro is so dialed in I hate to part with it— call if ya want more info-Tod 2607019033
 
Just my experience, watch ads and take your time. I bought a mint 13 XTX with hindle pipes and Power commander for under 5000$ Canadian. It had just under 5000kms on it and came with new carbides in package, new slides and old stock exhaust plus cover. Lots of guys are buying into "weight" sales gimmick.
Nytro isn't perfect but makes for a good all around sled or even a project sled.
 
I like your post, sounds like you did you research instead of starting with the standard "whats the best xxx to get".

I put just under 10k miles on my '09 XTX (bough new) before my fiance claimed it as hers. I just picked up u lightly used (2300 miles) '14 xtx 1.75 for myself for $6k. To give you a perspective how I ride it's about 80% on trail 20 off and I ride at a aggressive pace, but I usually do 150-200 mile days so I don't ride at 100%.



Where to start with the '09...
-I don't mind the stock tiny windshield, I've ridden in several below zero(Fahrenheit) days and been fine aside from my fingers. The Nytro requires an active rider so your body will stay warm.
-Nytro fuel range is not it's strong point with 7.4 gallons, so you might want to address that. On my '09 I did the Tour buddy which is a aux inline fuel tank that auto siphons into the main tank. I'm trying to find another solution for my '14 as the company doesn't exist any more. A lot of people like the Trail tank which is a larger replacement tank, but the body panels don't fit back perfectly and the tank can be hard to remove and reinstall if you need to.
-The stock skis should have never been put on a 4 stroke sled. They push in on trail and just sink out of sight off trail. I tried C&A XTX ski's and they absolutely railed on the trail and managed to float pretty well off trail, how ever once they started to push in the loose stuff, they didn't regain grip very well and on the longer days they absolutely killed my shoulders. I have since switched to Curves with 4" leading edges and 6" round carbides and its great. Not the outright grip of the C&A, but they float, are progressive in how the gain and lose traction and are much easier to turn.
-OFT steering relocator is a must, makes stand up riding much easier and it replaces the soft plastic steering blocks that develop play quite easily. I'm 6' and it's a good blend because it's about as high as I'd go for sitdown riding, yet I can stand up straight and ride
-I did the Mountaintech 43+2 front end with olite bushings. It transformed the sled's handling, probably one of the most important things to do in my opinion. What also help is you can play with caster/camber to set it up how you'd like. Olite bushings are a must as I even went to them on my stock a arms earlier because the plastic ones wore out after 2k miles. If you get and '09 and don't switch out a arms, there is a recall for the right side upper a arm bolt holding backing out. I ignored the recall only to have it back out on me one ride. Apparently recalls exist for a reason.
-I did tweak the front subframe in mine without managing to hit anything, so not sure if it might have been railroad crossings of just hard riding over time. Something to consider is pulling that subframe off and getting "grizz gussets" welded in. He's a member here and they make the front end much more rugged. After I replaced the tweaked subframe with a new one with "grizz gussets" my fiance managed to catch a trailer with one ski and it spun the machine right around yet didn't tweak anything. I'm convinced the stock subframe would have twisted. To see if a subframe is tweaked stand above each a arm looking straight down, the shock should be centered in each upper a arm. If either side isn't the subframe's been tweaked. When shopping for my '14 I looked at several used ones that were tweaked, some rather badly.
-As mentioned above the stock hand warmers do suck, a Yamaheater is a must.
-I also did bigger 135mm idler wheels to help with hyfax wear, haven't tried the Dupont Sliders yet but my brother has them in his Apex xtx (same rear skid) and they have been holding up for thousands of miles. Also any 2011+ xtx skid has the wheels relocated in an effort to combat Hyfar wear.
-My '09 overheated constantly until I added the factory mountain undertunnel cooler. Any '13 or '14 xtx 1.75 already comes with this.
-I never had a single issue with relays and in fact just changed the original battery this winter after 10 years and over 9k miles.
-Schmidt Brothers comfort clutch. Lowers the engagement to about 2800 rpms and allows very smooth take offs and much easier to load/unload too. I did his full clutch kit, but if you're not into that just the comfort clutch is definitely worth it.
-Headlights are horrible, I did HID's on my '09 and it helps, but the high/lo difference is to extreme so I still find myself in situation where I can't see as well as I'd like.
-I have a pure hatred for the 1.25 ripsaw track. It trenches in the fluff and has way too much side bite not allowing the back end slide through the corners and making the sled more tippy in the corners, something it doesn't need any more help with. I went to a 1.352" cobra track and it made a huge difference in soft snow and let the back end come around easier in the corners. The down fall of the Cobra track is that it's not very durable and on the hard pack the lugs just fold over and don't hook. Also the '09 has introvert drivers so it limits you on track swapping unless you want to swap to extroverts. What ever track you swap to (if you get one with a ripsaw), make sure you read up about the tracks and shy away from ones that have good side bite.
-When I pulled the driveshaft out to swap tracks, I had the bolt that holds the chain case gear on snap off. Do some reading on this because it was a common issue and some have had the broken off head roll around enough to wear a hole through the chain case . Not sure when/how Yamaha fixed this.
-The torsion springs are pretty weak and there is a lot of slop in them causing the back end to sag. I did a set of plastic Hygear spacers that go inside the torsion springs in an attempt to take of some slop so they engage better. It helped, but it wasn't enough. I'd recommend doing the spacer and getting a set of stiffer springs depending on how heavy you are.
-Because the exhaust is exposed under the tunnel the Nytro XTX loves to build up massive chunks of ice. So bad in fact that the next day you're track will be locked in place and you'll be taking a hammer to remove over a sq ft of ice at least. Several companies make a "tunnel closer" that covers up some of the ice. I used Schmidt brothers and it helped. I also remove the tunnel protectors because I don't run studs and the give the snow/ice something else to build up on.
-Shocks.... I had Hygear do a revalve of all my shocks and added triple rate springs on front with dual rate in the center. The valving lets the sled eat up the bump while remaining relativity soft (It's hard to get a Nytro xtx to ride plush). The triple rate front springs let you set the ride height of the front and have a more progressive spring rate for a softer ride. The center dual rate spring also lets you have a more progressive rate. I also go HyLo valves on the front and rear shock which lets you set high speed compression and low speed compression. If you are a perfectionist like me they are great, but honestly overkill for a set it and forget it rider.
-Also get a skid plate. The stock plastic one has thin aluminum ribs on the back side for strength, but any impact and they send those ribs right into the oil filter ending your day. Not to mention the stump/rock/whatever that hits you skid plate will then catch the front tunnel heat exchange and crack/bend it. I added a Mountaintech plate on mine and that first winter hit hard enough to bent the skid plate, but it held and saved my engine and only put a small dent in the bottom lip of my front tunnel heat exchange, but nothing more than that.

I just picked up the '14 so for now I'm riding it stock.
-I miss not having the clickers up front, but honestly the stock valving is much better than it ever was on my '09.
-The hand warmers are warmer, but I haven't battle tested them in sub zero(Fahrenheit) days.
-The rear skid had some updates including the torsion spring holders are now metal and plastic vs my '09 being all plastic. The all plastic ones have broken through on some people causing the torsion spring to spring right into the track locking it up. I've been watching my '09 and it's not worn too bad. It also has the idler wheels relocated to help with slider wear.
-The '14 has separate hand and thumb warmer controls so you can cycle up and down on each. The '09 has one toggle for both so you can only cycle up and then reset to zero and repeat.
-I absolutely love the 1.75 BC track, hooks up hard on all snow conditions and it lets the back end slide on corners so it doesn't tip as easy. I haven't been out on icey/hard pack days to see if the taller lugs give me any slider lubrication or overheating issues. Also any XTX 1.75 sled already comes with the mountain tunnel cooler I added to my '09.
-Icing under the tunnel is still a huge problem though the XTX 1.75 comes without tunnel protectors.

Over the summer I'm going to build up my '14 with pretty much everything my '09 has minus a couple things due to shortcomings already addressed by Yamaha (hand warmers, bigger idler wheels, mountain undertunnel cooler, etc). I already have a pile of parts starting.

Hope some of this info helps and feel free to ask me anything. All in all the Nytro is not a good stock sled, but the aftermarket has pretty much covered all its shortcomings and when set up is an absolute blast to ride. Yes the newer Vipers/Side winders may be easier to ride and just as fast if not faster on the trails but they don't have the same quality feeling or build methodology as a 100% Yamaha sled.
 
Wow....now that is an information write up. Very nice man!!

Haha thanks, I kinda got carried away. One more thing I forgot to mention is all Yamaha 4 strokes go through exhaust gaskets. I'd recommend installing copper ones when your stock ones wear out. When they start to go you'll hear a deeper tone come from underneath the tank area at idle. There is a metal cover over those gaskets that has insulation on it and if you let the gaskets go for too long the exhaust gases eat away at the insulation under that cover and you'll have to address that as well.
 
Haha thanks, I kinda got carried away. One more thing I forgot to mention is all Yamaha 4 strokes go through exhaust gaskets. I'd recommend installing copper ones when your stock ones wear out. When they start to go you'll hear a deeper tone come from underneath the tank area at idle. There is a metal cover over those gaskets that has insulation on it and if you let the gaskets go for too long the exhaust gases eat away at the insulation under that cover and you'll have to address that as well.
Don’t ever do exhaust gaskets in these sleds again go checkout FX Garage Works he has replacement flex pipes. I had a broken flex pipe at beginning of season and went this direction. Very very happy gets rid of donuts. Plus with Canadian American exchange rate I got them for like 230$
 
I just traded my XTX in at a dealer in MN, maybe it will pop up on their site soon. Had a lot done to it.
 


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