Supertrax article-Whats everyone think

[devinzz1]

hahaha... people are spending alot of time writing massive articles on which brand is better. Feels good to not be brand loyal!

 

[Riceburner]

Enough of that. We hijacked the OP's thread way to much. My apology to him.

I love this HEAD to HEAD section and look foreward to comparisons and peoples opinions. All good info. I just take exception to incorrect information and see it as bashing or trolling. Maybe I'm paranoid or mistaken, I dunno.

I would actually enjoy seeing Mike Knapp post a comparo of his 1200 Doo's straight line performace vs his buddy's 2011 Apex in another thread, documenting what work had been done and what it cost on both sleds each time the results changed . We all know that Cubic Dollars will win in the end so that is why my money interest.

As far as the OP ? Check this out. http://www.osmmag.com/downloads/throwdown.pdf
A little less Biased than the Lesters seem to be. [Wonder who sposor's their race team? Just Sayin.]

Best real world and factual comparison I have ever seen on the 150 HP sleds. A week of testing and opinions and then a closed course direct comparison. It was a bonus and surprise to me and the testers that the Apex did so well.

The best part though is it showed the strengths and weakness's of each sled and then compared them all on the graph. Very helpful IMHO in determining which sled is likely to suit you best.

Hope they do the same for the 130 ish HP sleds soon.




http://www.osmmag.com/downloads/throwdown.pdf

 

[suprfst]

Ideally if someone would build a sled with the turbo cats engine(with reflash) and sharp chassis, with Yamahas sound, fit and finnish, reliability and ski doos ride and handling theyd REALLY have something.

Honestly my buddys 2012 1200 (touring) doo is the flattest corning and best out of the box riding sled I have ever ridden to date. Its not fast but is a nice trail cruiser and effortless to ride all day.

 

[evil eagle]

I have been away from this site over the summer and it seems the last post i saw from knapp was how much better the 1200 is over anything. So here we are again. So why does he bother. I don't go on doo talk yapping my lips on skidoo's
The 1200 is a nice mid classed sled. I have alot of friends who ride them, more and more all the time. But they are not all reliable all the time. We have had to tow 2 of them for failed fuel pumps. Most of these guys complain about short lived clutch parts in both clutches.
Yamaha builds some shitty components and so does skidoo

 

[nbsledder]

I agree.

I think Yamaha just does not take it seriously. The technology that is included in their motors is heads and shoulders above the rest. You can get on a ski doo, and it might be as fast but it still does not sound or feel the same. If Yamaha put half of that amount of energy into designing and testing a chassis they would have something.

Go on Ski Doo's website and look at everything you can do and customize- it is always changing or something new is coming out every year. And that goes for just about every manufacturer. Yamaha has done nothing since 2011-literally nothing.

2011? I think you mean 2006 and for that matter the Apex is really still in a 03 RX1 chassis. My 2011 was no different than the 06 Apex IMO. Slight and I mean only slight changes from the 06 machines. So same chassis for last 10 years is how I'm seeing it! That's just not cutting it. And the Apex has actually gained weight. Its now a real heavyweight, over 715 lb. machine now ready to ride! That's over 110 pounds heavier than my 1200!!!! That is just crazy!

Mike, Enough is enough.

IMO you are full of it and must think we are all stupid here on TY or you have turned into a Troll. Too bad, you used to be a great contributor.


I found a few differences between my 06 & 11 such as the following.

It has the same engine block & Delta Box, that's about it. Edit.[Actually the Delta box is new as well.]

Let me count the ways;

New Intake system
New Rings
New pistons.
Different timing
Deto Sensor
More HP & torque
New Skis
New front suspension
New Plastics
New Seat
New tunnels
New Track lengths
New shock/spring packages
New rear suspensions.
Air Ride available
Exup
Power steering
Hot hand warmers
New windshield
New clutching & gearing
Much Quicker & faster than 2006/2010

I probably missed some things but that's a good start.

And by the way, the above are facts, not opinion.

We get the message. You think a Doo 1200 is a great sled. Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try one. Now give us a break on the B S.

Well said riceburner!!!! he sure does come on like a troll!!!!

 

[KnappAttack]

You know the funny thing, I've owned more Yamaha snowmobiles in 10 years than most of you will ever ride of any brand in a lifetime, and you call me a troll. Why? Because I tell a poster about my success with the Doo and it's great attributes? Which is not a stretch by any means. Seems like sour grapes too me.

Like it or not, people are finding out about how great the1200 Doo really is. More and more Yamaha converts on the XR forum every year, you don't see it going the other way around, there's a very good reason for that.

 

[shadow44]

Knapp, it just seems you only come on here to be negative and tell us Yamaha 4 stroke lovers that our sleds have nothing but issues...it's gotten old...Yamaha site for Yamaha fans ya know. Nobody is forcing you to come on here....I don't go on Doo talk and brag up my Nytro. I'm sure your a good guy with alot of knowledge...you just don't seem to be here to contribute anymore...but instead you come on here to bash...just saying.

 

[KnappAttack]

The bashing was against the Doo, I just set the record straight, nothing more nothing less. Don't bash the Doo and I wont bash the Yamaha. I just call it like it is factually. Go back from the start and read every post. Perhaps it will make more sense.

And yes, I still contribute to making the Yamaha a better machine for the owners, both on the forum and in the my garage.

 

[Dano]

The bashing was against the Doo, I just set the record straight, nothing more nothing less. Don't bash the Doo and I wont bash the Yamaha. I just call it like it is factually. Go back from the start and read every post. Perhaps it will make more sense.

And yes, I still contribute to making the Yamaha a better machine for the owners, both on the forum and in the my garage.

Mike, I think where the issue is that everybody has their own taste in sleds. You found your taste in sleds which is just that, your taste for your type of riding. We're not a bunch of stupid inexperience people on here that never seen or tried a doo before, which you keep promoting your 5 year old 1200 as if it was some lost hidden gem. We get it, you buy and bought allot of sleds. We also knew you also bought a new turbo cat and for some reason you're the only one that couldn't seem to make it work with a bit of tweaking. They handle great and are stupid fast...good thing you sold it? You bought an Apex XTX and sold it because you thought it was a totally different sled then what you thought, but you still had countless Apex's in the past that served you well and should of known what your buying. Have fun on your 1200, kick back and relax for it too is a great sled. I also have 5 sleds and 2 of them are doos.

Dan

 

[rindtj]

The bashing was against the Doo, I just set the record straight, nothing more nothing less. Don't bash the Doo and I wont bash the Yamaha. I just call it like it is factually. Go back from the start and read every post. Perhaps it will make more sense.

And yes, I still contribute to making the Yamaha a better machine for the owners, both on the forum and in the my garage.

Mike, I think where the issue is that everybody has their own taste in sleds. You found your taste in sleds which is just that, your taste for your type of riding. We're not a bunch of stupid inexperience people on here that never seen or tried a doo before, which you keep promoting your 5 year old 1200 as if it was some lost hidden gem. We get it, you buy and bought allot of sleds. We also knew you also bought a new turbo cat and for some reason you're the only one that couldn't seem to make it work with a bit of tweaking. They handle great and are stupid fast...good thing you sold it? You bought an Apex XTX and sold it because you thought it was a totally different sled then what you thought, but you still had countless Apex's in the past that served you well and should of known what your buying. Have fun on your 1200, kick back and relax for it too is a great sled. I also have 5 sleds and 2 of them are doos.

Dan

I think that is the issue with 95% of snowmobile 'discussions'. People think something that works for them is the best for everyone. Like saying a corvette is always better than a mustang...

 

[Heritage]

I have to say something here...first of all...I respect Mike's track record both as a tuner/racer, and rider....I HATE, HATE, HATE...seeing him riding something from that yellow company...Aftre watching him race yami's for many years, and as a fan it's a tough pill to swallow....Nobody made the V-max 4"s run like he did. That being said...I get what he's saying...and if you haven't ridden the other brands..you have no business replying...he's entitled to his opinion, and for the most part I agree with him....I don't believe he's a yamaha hater...I simply think he found something that works better for him.

I also think, the doo 4tek is a better handling, better riding sled than MOST of the yamaha's on the market....I disagree with his opinion of the motor...I thought it was doggy, and sounded like a tractor...I realize you can mod the 4 tek, and they go like hell...but you can mod an apex/vector and they move too...the weight difference between a 4 tek and a nytro is really close...so..to me that's not an issue. Personally if I was going to buy a ski-doo, it would be for the weight savings, so the 4 tek would not be my choice...it would be the 800 etec.

I f I am buying a four stroke...I'm buying a yamaha...PERIOD...best motor in the business...yes the weight sux...and though they have gotten better over the last 4 years...the ride and handling is not as good as doo or cat.
I hope yamaha loses some weight (50-75 lbs would be great)...but what I really hope they do is..HIRE somebody who knows how to calibrate suspensions...that know's how to
valve shocks, or make the valving and springs work better together...NEW SUSPENSION....??? Hopefully.
Suspension set-up has been my biggest gripe with yamaha...the weight isn't as big an issue for me.

That being said...I love my attak...but it's far from stock...and I think that is what frustrates us yami riders the most...spend $12-$15 thousand dollars...then spend another $3,000 on ski's, shock revalves, or springs...sometimes tracks...or clutch kits...sorry but that's frustrating.

I like what yamaha currently has out...and believe they have done many minor, but significant upgrades to these machines...I think the new tech we have seen the last couple of years will be applied to the next genertion of sleds they come out with...I guess we will know in february.

I don't fault mike or anybody for moving on to a different brand, thought about it myself....but just can't give up my attak...she's been too good.. I wish some of you would ride some of the other sleds out there...it would give you more prespective of what is what...being brand biased is STUPID. Be loyal to yamaha if you want...that's cool...I know I am...but don't bash people for an opinion that's different than yours. I have no problem with Mike's assessment...just very much dislike seeing him on yellow

 

[raginyamaha]

This popcorn is delicious...... Ive ridden both switched with a 2011 1200 for around 100 miles. Very nice machine, sounds a bit like a lawn tractor, not as bad as a cat 1100 but overall a very nice sled. The day after he started eating belts on our ride, ate 2 belts in about 500 miles.... i think he said something was wrong with the secondary clutch as to why he was wreckin belts. It handled great cornered much better than my nytro. I love my nytro but if i had the money i might have one in my garage. MIGHT..... the yammi engine just sounds too good....

 

[Murse]

I've been on 2010 carb 600tnt fun light machine goes pretty good and handles good but had 500 miles on it and crank twisted.... 800etec I rode it's fast handles well and is comfortable \. Lifts skis on jumps easy. It idles well is really good on fuel and oil and is as fast as my 06 yami. That being said its a 2012 and my 06 is just as fast so I am disappointed in that aspect because the numbers are better on paper on the doo. The sound sucks yes compared to my yami's all of them anything else does not come close to the sound and I don't know why but that alone makes the yami a much funner ride for me. Now if the etec can put on some miles and be problem free as it has so far for around 2000miles ill be impressed. So thumbs up to skidoo they stepped it up in the reliability department with the etec I think. We'll see. But you guys are right IMO I ride and own Yamaha and I don't and never have had any issues. I love it and I am open to other brands and some technology they have for sure. It's hard to be open minded and Like Yamaha because you compliment other peoples sleds and they all bash yours but look at it when you are not paying attention LOL. Oh well.

 

[yamadoo]

I have never read a Knapp review that I thought was wrong or off base. he knows his stuff and he likes his 1200 Doo, I rode one and liked it as well. I still like my Apex, Vector and Venture but think a Doo may be Good as well.

We have to respect others opinions.

My two cents

 

[journeyman]

Just my opinion......I think Mike is just trying to fuel the fire for Yamaha to make some changes for the better in their lineup. That's all. It only stands to reason that he knows quite a few people in the snowmobile industry. If it really worked out that way everyone would benefit. I don't think anyone would argue in having a lighter, better riding and handling Yamaha would be a bad thing.