Shane
Expert
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 387
- Reaction score
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- Location
- Niskayuna, NY
- Website
- www.fa.ml.com
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 YAMAHA VIPER LTX SE
2015 Ski-Doo 800 XRS Renegade
2012 Ski-Doo 600 ace
2010 Ski-Doo 600 e-tec GTX Limited
2007 Polaris Dragon 120
I have an '06 APEX ER I bought from a friend with 1,000 (Canada only 2 trips) miles on it. I go 230 without gear, ride hard, trails range from carpet to mogels and I am affraid I will bottom it out to no end. I have ridden a buddies REV RENEGADE and love it, but the 4 stroke is the way to go. I had a Vector last year.
I ordered and have the "FAT BOY" spring and the instructions on how to set up the shock and "C" Clip etc. I am apprehensive that this will not be sufficient. I have a bad back and want to get this sled set up right. Here are the options I am considering:
1. HYGEAR SUSPENSION Mods per Ross's recommendations
2. Go M-10 or M-12
3. Go Expert X
4. Be fiscally wise and install the spring and adjust circlip.
Can anybody offer me "real world" intellectual advice? Not just brand bashing nonsense and preferrably with experience in this set up.
Thanks alot guys.
Shane
I ordered and have the "FAT BOY" spring and the instructions on how to set up the shock and "C" Clip etc. I am apprehensive that this will not be sufficient. I have a bad back and want to get this sled set up right. Here are the options I am considering:
1. HYGEAR SUSPENSION Mods per Ross's recommendations
2. Go M-10 or M-12
3. Go Expert X
4. Be fiscally wise and install the spring and adjust circlip.
Can anybody offer me "real world" intellectual advice? Not just brand bashing nonsense and preferrably with experience in this set up.
Thanks alot guys.
Shane
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I would say it depends on how bad your back is and how critical a smooth ride is. The mono-shock skid is actually very good if you need a soft, compliant ride (one of the best riding skids available). Personally I wouldn't even think of changing the skid.
Two main options to consider:
1. For the softest ride I'd stick with the stock spring and move the c-clip to the 3rd position. You'll probably find that will give you the correct sit-in of ~40mm somewhere in the 7 position spring cam adjustment from there. The ride will be extremely compliant with the only concern bottoming it out. If you take it a little bit easy and crank up the remote adjuster for the shock when you're on rougher trails you should be fine. As long as you don't bottom it out, your back will be as happy as it can be on any sled (of course if you bottom it out you'll wish you changed the spring).
One thing you should check on is to make sure the spring doesn't start rubbing the shock. Sometimes when installed at the 3rd c-clip position the stock springs buckle a little when heavily compressed and damages the shock.
2. If you're looking for more bottoming control (more aggressive riding) I would install the next step up stiffer spring. There are many optional springs to choose from and you don't want to go too far if you want to keep a compliant ride. Here is a list of all the springs (at least these were available in 06):
1 8FU-47489-20-00 SPRING 1 (K=29.4N/MM)
1 8FU-47489-00-00 SPRING 1 (K=44.1N/MM)
1 8FT-47489-00-00 SPRING 1 (K=49.0N/MM)
1 8FU-47489-10-00 SPRING 1 (K=63.7N/MM)
1 8FT-47489-10-00 SPRING 1 (K=68.6N/MM)
1 8FU-47489-30-00 SPRING 1 (K=78.5N/MM)
I believe the 06 Apex came with the 49 N/mm spring (might be the 44.1 N/mm one though) so the 63.7N/mm is probably the best option. This is the spring my buddies and I are running. We all weigh between 210 and 240 lbs and ride fairly aggressively. With this spring and the c-clip in the 2nd position we have virtually no bottoming out issues and it still provides a good ride.
Another thing to consider is if you're planning to carry saddle bags and do long trips. If so, you will likely want to change to the stiffer spring. We found the extra weight from the saddle bags combined with the ice that builds up in the tunnel and the desire to sit down and ride on the long hauls that the stock spring bottoms out even if you try to take it easy. The 63.7 N/mm spring rides very well with saddle bags (in the second c-clip position).
The Hygear setup might be the best option, but it's too new to know.
Hope this helps.
Two main options to consider:
1. For the softest ride I'd stick with the stock spring and move the c-clip to the 3rd position. You'll probably find that will give you the correct sit-in of ~40mm somewhere in the 7 position spring cam adjustment from there. The ride will be extremely compliant with the only concern bottoming it out. If you take it a little bit easy and crank up the remote adjuster for the shock when you're on rougher trails you should be fine. As long as you don't bottom it out, your back will be as happy as it can be on any sled (of course if you bottom it out you'll wish you changed the spring).
One thing you should check on is to make sure the spring doesn't start rubbing the shock. Sometimes when installed at the 3rd c-clip position the stock springs buckle a little when heavily compressed and damages the shock.
2. If you're looking for more bottoming control (more aggressive riding) I would install the next step up stiffer spring. There are many optional springs to choose from and you don't want to go too far if you want to keep a compliant ride. Here is a list of all the springs (at least these were available in 06):
1 8FU-47489-20-00 SPRING 1 (K=29.4N/MM)
1 8FU-47489-00-00 SPRING 1 (K=44.1N/MM)
1 8FT-47489-00-00 SPRING 1 (K=49.0N/MM)
1 8FU-47489-10-00 SPRING 1 (K=63.7N/MM)
1 8FT-47489-10-00 SPRING 1 (K=68.6N/MM)
1 8FU-47489-30-00 SPRING 1 (K=78.5N/MM)
I believe the 06 Apex came with the 49 N/mm spring (might be the 44.1 N/mm one though) so the 63.7N/mm is probably the best option. This is the spring my buddies and I are running. We all weigh between 210 and 240 lbs and ride fairly aggressively. With this spring and the c-clip in the 2nd position we have virtually no bottoming out issues and it still provides a good ride.
Another thing to consider is if you're planning to carry saddle bags and do long trips. If so, you will likely want to change to the stiffer spring. We found the extra weight from the saddle bags combined with the ice that builds up in the tunnel and the desire to sit down and ride on the long hauls that the stock spring bottoms out even if you try to take it easy. The 63.7 N/mm spring rides very well with saddle bags (in the second c-clip position).
The Hygear setup might be the best option, but it's too new to know.
Hope this helps.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Try the stock setup first. Then try moving the Clip.
n2oiroc
Expert
everybody keeps tossing springs in when most times it just really needs more compression dampening. call bruce at pioneer performance and get an expert opinion.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Len Todd said:
At 230 with a bad back and trying to ride at all aggressive I would highly recommend not trying it as delivered (at least not going on a ride with your buddies where you're encouraged to keep up). You will almost certainly end up hurting your back. This isn't an 04 RX-1 (with a much stiffer suspension).
I ride with a lot of Apex sleds (and help maintain them). Every one of my buddies who tried it stock first ended up hurting their back from bottoming out. Some took many weeks before their backs recovered.
The monoshock suspension is very softly sprung. You absolutely have to set the ride height if you don't want to take out your back.
Yamaha spec's 40-45mm of shock compression when you compare unloaded, fully extended to the length when you are sitting on the sled (after working the suspension a little by sitting down hard). When you consider the extra snow weight that will accumulate in the tunnel I recommend aiming for 40mm dry (or even a little less - especially if the soft stock spring is used).
In our experience c-clip position 2 with the stock spring looked like it would work, but we quickly ran out of cam adjustment with over 200 lbs riders.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
In my experience, people with bad backs tend to avoid serious mogal bashing. Consequently, they actually can run with lighter suspension. I weigh ~230 and also have a weak back.
Giving the stock ride a try gets you a baseline. Besides it does not hirt to try out what you have before you dump in a lot of money. You just may find out you like it. The Apex I rode last year suited me fine w/o any mods. As I understand it, it was set up for the max weight. To each their own. I am sure a good setup person could make a stock sled better, if you have the time & $s.
Giving the stock ride a try gets you a baseline. Besides it does not hirt to try out what you have before you dump in a lot of money. You just may find out you like it. The Apex I rode last year suited me fine w/o any mods. As I understand it, it was set up for the max weight. To each their own. I am sure a good setup person could make a stock sled better, if you have the time & $s.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Len Todd said:
I'm not saying throw money at it. The first option I suggested was to set it up to Yamaha's spec's for the rider - then try it. From the factory these sleds are not set up for a 230 lb rider and you need to adjust it by moving the c-clip.
I agree people with bad backs are better off with a softer suspension (which is why I suggested option 1).
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