Thinkin of nytro mountain alot

[beeze455]

Stock for stock the Arctic Cat performs better, it is 75lbs lighter dry (even more wet), has 20 more hp and a better track.

The yamaha is reliable. Not just engine wise either. Take apart a cat and a nytro and you will notice why the yamaha is an "anchor"

My cats always had something wrong or braking on them and I was a die hard cat guy. After buying a new cat and it blowing up 3 times in the first year and cat refusing to extend the warranty I bailed. Arctic Cat has the best performing sleds, but not the most reliable. When I rode cat I always brought a backup sled.

Do you want perfomance or reliabilty from a stock sled?

 

[YamaMTX]

What I find interesting in all these comments is the hp/weight is always the stock number comparison. Comparing a boosted Nytro to a 162 hp 2 stroke makes zero since! Put that 162 hp sled at 8000 ft and the heavier boosted Nytro with 180-270hp at the same elevation and then look at the weight/hp The 2 stroke makes 115 hp or so and the nytro still makes 180-270 hp. I know many of you know this, just thought it was getting overlooked and this thread in my opinion makes it sound like there is no positives to boosting because that will only make you equal to your 800 buddies. This may be the case at 2000 ft but line them up at 6000 + ft and see what happens.

 

[tapex_07]

I agree 100% with casaflyr and mtndream. There is SO much to say about this or that, that its proving both sides of view. Racers or comp riders go with whats light and easier to rebuild, makes great power, but has NO RELIABILITY!! It may make 200+ hp but you sure cant ride it all day in varying temps and elevation. WITHOUT doing anything to a boosted Nytro! Idk you can keep arguing both sides, just like Dodge vs Chevy vs Ford... Great topic imo

 

[lund]

What I find interesting in all these comments is the hp/weight is always the stock number comparison. Comparing a boosted Nytro to a 162 hp 2 stroke makes zero since! Put that 162 hp sled at 8000 ft and the heavier boosted Nytro with 180-270hp at the same elevation and then look at the weight/hp The 2 stroke makes 115 hp or so and the nytro still makes 180-270 hp. I know many of you know this, just thought it was getting overlooked and this thread in my opinion makes it sound like there is no positives to boosting because that will only make you equal to your 800 buddies. This may be the case at 2000 ft but line them up at 6000 + ft and see what happens.

X2, i was going to mention the exact thing, yes the Nytro is heavy, yes the new 2strokes are light easy to ride. But i DON't trail ride, i'm a noose bleed crowd kinda guy. At elevation ie. 6,000ft and up a boosted Nytro don't feel heavy with 240hp pushing them and will pound a light weight 2stroke to the ground all day long, plus go home on its own power.

The issue being made imo as i said in my previous post, is misleading.
The real issue imo and from my experience is "lack of skill" and experience.

Casa, i hope i didn't insult you or any one, it wasn't meant that way, i'm just relaying my observations from guiding peeps from all over the US and Canada.

The Nytro has its place for mountian use but needs lots of improvements IMO to be stellar.
As for weight, alot of you might not know or forgot that it wasn't long ago that the BIG DOG 2strokes were just under 600lbs.
ie. Cats "Thunder Cat 1000" 598Lbs, "Polaris RMK 900" 550Lbs, "BRPs RT1000" 575Lbs, all these monster's dominated the mountian's during their time and still today there are peeps wishing the manufactures would still build these in the newer chassies. There is a demand out there, except the darn imission compliance issue popes up.
So we are stuck with 4strokes on boost or high stung 2stroke on the edge of blowing up.

 

[basic700]

Im brand loyal. That being said everything else sucks... Buy the nytro b/c its the best and sounds way better than the 2 smokes

 

[casaflyr]

X2, i was going to mention the exact thing, yes the Nytro is heavy, yes the new 2strokes are light easy to ride. But i DON't trail ride, i'm a noose bleed crowd kinda guy. At elevation ie. 6,000ft and up a boosted Nytro don't feel heavy with 240hp pushing them and will pound a light weight 2stroke to the ground all day long, plus go home on its own power.

The issue being made imo as i said in my previous post, is misleading.
The real issue imo and from my experience is "lack of skill" and experience.

Casa, i hope i didn't insult you or any one, it wasn't meant that way, i'm just relaying my observations from guiding peeps from all over the US and Canada.

The Nytro has its place for mountian use but needs lots of improvements IMO to be stellar.
As for weight, alot of you might not know or forgot that it wasn't long ago that the BIG DOG 2strokes were just under 600lbs.
ie. Cats "Thunder Cat 1000" 598Lbs, "Polaris RMK 900" 550Lbs, "BRPs RT1000" 575Lbs, all these monster's dominated the mountian's during their time and still today there are peeps wishing the manufactures would still build these in the newer chassies. There is a demand out there, except the darn imission compliance issue popes up.
So we are stuck with 4strokes on boost or high stung 2stroke on the edge of blowing up.

I always respected your comments on that other forum Lund, I think it was Doo Talk. I felt your comments were vilified just because you had good things to say about Yamaha, and didn't bleed yellow. I probably misconstrued your comments somewhat here, and I apologize. But I (and probably dirtmover and others) would like to know more of what's behind them.

I thought I was "out" but now I hope I have a better handle on what people are trying to say. @ mtdream, I still think all of this as totally on subject and this discussion will help dirtmover make an informed decision. It's a good discussion, I'm learning and others here are too. I could just say "keep your M7", but really what good is that unless the OP is taking a poll? Shoot, from reading and participating in this discussion, I've moved my opinion along the scale several times. Common mistake? I hardly think so, this is exactly what I look for: a good discussion that takes in a lot of opinions, it lets me gather the information I require to come to an educated position. My asking questions brings out better discussion and more opinions. @ mtdream and lund, I am not a flatlander, I live at the base of the Bighorns in WY. My residence sits at 4000 feet, the trailhead at 5000, and the playgrounds at 6000-10000. I am probably on the trail way more than I should be, but all of my riding is most definitely in the mountains, I have never ridden a sled below 5000ft.

My thoughts were and still are:
-To make a used stock MTX mountain worthy it takes a min of $5000 above the original cost of the sled, boost and track.
-When this money is spend you probably have the most mountain worthy sled on the mountain as far as power and reliability. Nothing can touch it for HP and coming home under it's own power.
-I traded my MTX and gave $4000, and ended up with a well regarded brand new mountain sled, with the track already on it that a lot of MTXs use and a large HP boost over a stock Nytro. I also have a 2 year warranty and IMO better (maybe just easier, still haven't hear the answers here) handling.

To me this was a no brainer. I spend much less than I would have to make my Nytro into something that it was not from the factory and IMO should have been from the factory. Now in reading this thread I still wonder if I should have gone the distance with my Nytro (mtdream isn't that what this post is really about? coming to a decision about a large investment?)

So my final though here is: Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get that fantastic Yamaha engine in a sled that handles like an M series or RMK pro? I think that would be the engineering feat I would be after if I were in Yamha's R&D department. I'd be all over it, I want a mountain slayer from the factory with Yamahas power plant and reliability and ACs handling. I really don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[AKrider]

Elevation is the key factor I was missing. Here in South Central Alaska, we rarely ride over 6,000 ft so 2-strokes are by far more popular and work really, really well. I can see how a boosted Nytro would be preferable at high elevations. I wouldn't even consider a boosted 2-stroke.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned for consideration the turbo charged Cat 1100. The chassis should be better than a stock Nytro. I know Cat build quality is not there, but its a Suzuki engine and it seems to have a reliable reputation. I believe they are less expensive than a new, boosted Nytro but I could be wrong, Cat doesn't list their price on the website.

 

[yamaha1973]

Im brand loyal. That being said everything else sucks... Buy the nytro b/c its the best and sounds way better than the 2 smokes

agreed!!!

 

[birkebeiner]

@ casaflyr: I'm glad you like your Cat.

 

[akvector]

I can not believe why so many think the nytro is so ill handling. Yes in stock for I was unhappy with the quality of shocks yamaha put on and it is was something I should not have had to purchase but lets look at all the others how many keep their stock shocks?? Eventually they need replaced or rebuilt. In stock form I was able to boondock and climb hills alike and I am not an elite rider. In the same time frame I have ridden doos and Ms and I tell you that I hated the doo and the m8 was comparable I really did not feel the power difference either.

So to make my nytro handle acceptably needed Timbersled skid, track, shocks up front and oft relocater.

Timbersled is $1800 now? track got for $350.00 plenty of good take offs out there. Shocks $600.00 and relocater i dont remember but lets just say $100.00 and better boards $200.00

So I spent 3000 it is a 2008 this was not spent in one season. I am still riding on orignal motor original sub frame and orginal front end and I can side hill make that turn up hill from a side hill and may I add before the nytro I was never able to make that change in line while on the mountain. Is the skinz better I am sure it is but not a necessary in my opinion.

I know that I am riding out every time and I have been the tow rig a few times.

How much is your engine rebuild going to cost you?

If you were to purchase a 10 or newer the skid and front shocks would most likely not be a need if it is the se model.

Yes yamaha needs to step it up and if they dont I will probabaly be on the pro climb turbo as it is factory boost.

 

[rlcofmn]

Edit. I've got no intrest in a pissing match. Thats why I quit posting in this thread and should have stayed that way.

Proceed.

 

[mike g]

the last couple days I was riding with a extremely good rider on a Pro 155.

A pro....600? I've seen a pro 800 155 out climb a full mod turbo nytro 162 on 6-7lbs, so I have to question your story a bit, either the guy was on a 6 or really wasn't as good a rider as you say.

Here's my two cents, you'll always be playing catch up on a nytro. You can make it handle/perform as well as a 800 but it'll cost you. You can get where the two strokes go stock, but it might take a couple tries or a different line. It's always going to be heavier.

It will be more reliable, but I don't believe they are significantly cheaper to operate. Fuel consumption is similar stock, worse once you turbo it. Someone mentioned oil and engines on two strokes...a two stroke engine lasts a lot longer than a nytro subframe.

I'd say a nytro is a good choice if you want to make big power or need reliability. If you're mechanically inclined enough to go over your sled every weekend and catch problems before they arise in the field and want a capable sled in stock form stay two stroke.

 

[lund]

I took Lunds post the same way as Casaflyr so I want to be careful here as I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match. My view is if the Nytro was such a great sled with whatever is consider to be the ideal set of modifications, a lot more people would be riding them AND doing well on them. The Nytro would dominate hillclimb competitions but it doesn't, it would be in all kinds of freeride snowmachine videos but it isn't, and there would be a lot more of them out on the snow, which there are not.

:

I'ed like to clarify a couple of misconceptions here and the one is about hillclimbing. I hillclimbed for BRP for 5yrs and though we used Ski-doos the sleds we used in the class i raced, the sleds were specificly setup and designed for climbing. They were not your general recreational sleds.
There is a stock and near stock general entry class that your weekend worrior could enter, even a mod class but none were "Pro" class. The Pro class use sleds that are, like i stated built for one purpose....to hillclimb.
Though alot of young people might put credit on that statement above, in reality it hold's little truth in a sleds capability as a recreational sled.

Another thing i want to mention is advertising and publicity. The stockers and NO NAMES get none, no matter how well they do.
The one's your going to hear about are the PROs sporting a name brand. PLUS the other thing you might not know is the sled they're riding isn't something you walk into the dealer for. They are modified.

 

[AKrider]

I agree about the publicity thing but Yamaha's lack of success is the result of few people running them in hill climb events and that the sled is not competitive out of the box against its 2-stroke competition.

In our hill climb we had a younger guy who did pretty well on his Nytro. Once he moved up in the classes a year later and ran against better skilled riders his results suffered. You can't run boost in the lower classes so you get to see how sleds perform against one another on the same course, same day. The race course is just like the mountains where a heavier sled that doesn't handle or maneuver as well is not going to do as well against a lighter, more maneuverable sled. Rider skill can be 90% of how well a sled does. But, when every rider is capable of 90% than the differences in the sleds comes into play.

 

[otis]

Time and retrospect are wonderful allies. I say that because if I were looking today for a new sled versus modifying what I currently own my opinions are vastly different.

If I were in the market today I'd for sure look at and purchase either the Cat T1100 or 800 Pro RMK. They are the class leading sleds in both categories.

Light weight and great out of the box handling the Polaris wins. For a stock sled it's the best of both worlds. Good power, great handling, and light weight.

On the other hand when you are looking for power there is no money better spent than modifying a Cat M1100 Turbo. With a tune and exhaust they are making over 275 HP for less than $1500. It's 35lbs lighter than a comparable Nytro. Apples to apples a T1100 at 275HP is massively cheaper than a modified 275HP Nytro of the same weight and handles better out of the box.

A new 2012 Nytro 162" for $12900 plus 7k for a good 275HP turbo plus 2k for a rear skid (weight loss), 1k for front suspension (handling), 1.5k for front shocks, $750 for lighter exhaust/seat combo, $500 for better foot boards minus maybe $1500 for selling the stock skid, front a-arms/shocks. Leaves you with roughly $24150 and one fantastic sled. Reliable, fun, and great handling. Weight around 600lbs wet.

Cat M1100 Turbo HCR $14800, $650 boon docker controller good for 280HP. Around 630HP wet. (dry wt 557lbs) $650 for light exhaust drops around 610lbs wet. Total $16100. Add skinz running boards for $500 and you have equal sleds for $16600 or $7500 less than the above Nytro. These sleds are apples to apples.

I have the above 24k Nytro and I really love it. Today I wouldn't even think about which sled to get. Arctic Cat every time. Mine was great in 2008 and over 3 years I have spent about $2500/yr to get it to where it is today.

I have had growing pains....Turbo tuning issues (boost controller/AFR and boost gauge/fuel controller and loose header bolts), clutch issues (primary weight experiments and secondary helix adjustments to shockwave), crappy stock skid to new timbersled then 153" tracksusa 162" extension/wildchild 2 wheel kit and now to the newest 162" timbersled skid with ice age rails/OFT 2 wheel kit, stock a-arms upgraded to fox air shock to bark busters to skinz concept with fox float evol X, awful stock maverick track to 153" power claw to 162" challenger extreme, stock foot boards reinforced with arctic cat rails to better boards to skinz air frames, turbo exhaust thru the tunnel to under tunnel yoshi exhaust, stock seat to tall skinz air frame seat to free ride low skinz seat, wildchild steering forward to OFT steering forward, Stock riser to ROX riser to skinz riser, trail tank, xxx mod rods panel vents to skinz airframe hood and OFT roest gauge vent, stock skis to slydog powderhounds. My money has already been spent and I love to tinker so I'm happy.

Food for thought for a new buyer.

Otis