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Warning for riders for Munising Michigan

smokingcrater said:
agriffinjd said:
I don't agree proof would be easy. The manuals say that for avoiding litigation in case someone gets hurt. Manual also says not to stud the track but lots of people do.
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The manual has nothing to do with anyone getting hurt... If you read about studding the track, not once does it say it will cause personal injury or is dangerous. It is not advised because it can damage the snowmobile, which is absolutely true.

Again, I'm actually agreeing with you, its actually safer! I've taken my niece in front of my on my snowmobile. But as far as what is legally more dangerous, it is VERY clear. The mfg says 2 up is absolutely dangerous, period. There is absolutely no judge that would go against a LEO who happens to have a snowmobile manual for the OP's snowmobile which also says 2 up is completely off limits.

Taking this to court would be a very, very bad decision.
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How is it a "very, very" bad decision? Worse that happens is he has to pay the ticket. He could represent himself if he doesn't want to pay an attorney or can't find one willing to do it for free on principal. Best that happens is the judge injects some sanity into the situation and finds him not responsible for the alleged violation.

Other than the manual saying 2 up can be dangerous, please explain how riding with your 7 year old in front of you is dangerous? You can't. The reason you can't is because it's not. Even the little picture in the manual shows 2 adults on a 1-up sled. Not a child wedged in front of the parent. I bet the manual on a 2-up says to ride only with the passenger on the 2-up seat behind the driver. Does that make it safe to have a 7 year old seated behind the parent while riding? No, it doesn't. It would be more unsafe to ride it that way.

My point is, a manufacture's user manual does not trump common sense. I understand you agree with the OP being safe. I just disagree with you thinking the user manual is the ultimate answer.
 

x2, well said
 
Youth in front of you equal airbag for you in an accident equals unsafe.
That would be my guess.

I used to do it all the time. I was probably the worst. My son and I used to jump and ride wheelies with apex by the time he was 6.

Unfortunately it will probably stick, taking it court might cheapen it up.

Second option, don't pay the fine and don't go back to the U.P..
 
FAMILYMAN said:
......Second option, don't pay the fine and don't go back to the U.P..
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Not an option......last time I checked the U.P. is still part of MI and check out his location......... :-o
 
I still need to talk to my attorney. If my attorney says its a lost cause the ticket will get payed. I don't have deep pockets or the time off work.
 
rayone02 said:
..... If my attorney says its a lost cause the ticket will get payed......
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Here's one possible scenario I've seen work in the past.......get a "local" attorney in Marquette......since the LEO has to appear in court on his day off, have your attorney ask for a continuance......repeat as many times as you can get away with.......you may not get out of the ticket but you'll have the satisfaction of wasting a LOT of the prick's time.......AND if there's a scheduled time when he doesn't show up, then have your attorney claim you're ready to proceed.......voila!, case dismissed......

Remember, anything is possible..........
 
Man Rayone02 this really sucks. I rode through there with my son (on blue and black Attaks) on Wed when he had you pulled over. I asked you if he was giving you a ticket and you said yes and pointed to your son. I can't believe it was you, I work right here in Adrian.

I can't tell you how many miles I clocked years ago with my kids in front of me. Some azz holes go by the letter of the law and have no common sense what-so-ever. We were up there all week all over the U.P. and saw many riding with kids.
 
I just read the DNR brochure and can't find where you did anything illegal.

Here is the link.. am I missing something?

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/ ... 8169_7.pdf

Call the DNR Office in Lansing 517-284-6000, be nice and ask them where this law is documented and how you were supposed to know it? Tell them there is nothing in their brochure (at least I can't see it).
 
agriffinjd said:
rayone02 said:
Only code I see is 36cfr261.15g in district court
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CFR means it's a federal citation.

If it's 36 CFR 261.15(g), I think he's trying to say that by simply having a second person on the snowmobile, you're doing something likely to endanger another person. The text of 36 CFR 261.15 says:

261.15 Use of vehicles off roads.

It is prohibited to operate any vehicle off National Forest System, State or County roads:

(a) Without a valid license as required by State law.

(b) Without an operable braking system.

(c) From one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise unless equipped with working head and tail lights.

(d) In violation of any applicable noise emission standard established by any Federal or State agency.

(e) While under the influence of alcohol or other drug;

(f) Creating excessive or unusual smoke;

(g) Carelessly, recklessly, or without regard for the safety of any person, or in a manner that endangers, or is likely to endanger, any person or property.

(h) In a manner which damages or unreasonably disturbs the land, wildlife, or vegetative resources.

(i) In violation of State law established for vehicles used off roads.

I bolded (g) which is what he apparently wrote the ticket under. I don't think you're riding in a mannger that is likely to endanger your child if your child is seated in front of you, between your legs, anchored by your legs and protected by your arms. Unless you were driving like a maniac and forgot to mention that part...

I would fight the ticket. If you can afford it, hire an attorney to fight it. I can try to find a referral to an attorney for you in Marquette county that would be familiar with federal law. I know a couple that are snowmobilers even...
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Doesn't saying anything in these laws either. These are forestry laws.
 
Well....After reading about other riders and there experiences with USDA and USFS officer" Louis Cote" I had my turn this weekend......I came out of the woods onto a plowed road that is legal to be on and is very remote and mainly used for access for the only two residence at its end. It was after dark and I was towing a down sled ..... It was snowing very heavily and noticed a set of automobile lights just ahead and not moving towards us. Upon approaching the vehicle the flashers came on and I was stoped....I was told I would be ticketed for "failing to dim"(could not believe it!) and yes I had my brights on and I TRULY had NO idea .... I was concentrating on the task at hand as the conditions where intense and safety was my main concern. I must have had some luck on my side as I talked my way out of the ticket I was sure was coming.....(I stayed cool) Once he realized I was towing a down sled and conditions outside where dangerous! I had a "heads-up" about a shall we say new "over zealous" USDA/USFS law inforcement officer in town so I knew right away who I was dealing with. I will and must say he in the end helped us with getting the down seld going and on our way. We had a lengthy conversation afterwards that confirmed many things about his position on enforcement...! Be on your toes out there folks !
 
My buddy and I were Riding in Traverse City on a Friday night a few weeks ago, not a single other person on the trails (we apparantly missed the weatherman calling for rain) We know the trails like the back of our hands, I was in the lead, came up to a T in the trail where no cars or sleds ever cross except in a single direction. I was standing up and saw nothing around and pinned it, did about 70mph through the pointless stop sign. My buddy tried to stop and slid through and then just let off the break and took off. Next thing you know we were getting pulled over by sheriffs on sleds. They stopped us in seperate locations, I got away with a verbal warning, while they wrote my friend a Misdemeanor ticket. I obviously was not going to question their decision, but I still do not understand, he tried to stop, and I accelerated through. He lawyered up and got it dropped to a civil infraction. Really makes for a bad night of riding!
 
You have to Fight this one Rayone02. Sent you a PM. The trails were anything but busy that day. We saw only 4 sleds in the first 100 miles coming from Crystal Falls to Christmas that day, I can't see where you were endangering your son in any way.
 
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