Wide band O2 sensor ?

[chubby]

How much race fuel will wreck a wide band 02 sensor. Or is it just a matter of time before it happens with any race fuel.... Joel

 

[onrof]

might started clogging up with one tank of 100% VP112, previously ran 1200 miles with 50% Torco 110 and pump gas without problems. Replaced the wide band sensor for $79 direct from Bosch distributer. Back to Torco now

 

[chubby]

Thanks Joel

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

I have 750 Miles on my sled running 50/50 VP110 and 91 prem. So far the Bosch O2 is still working.

Jim

 

[HAMMER]

My thought is

If its not going to be accurate why bother having one...I'm runnig a VP C10 (unleaded non-oxygenated) and pump premium mix...so the sensor should remain accurate throughout its rated life expectancy.

---------------

http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsu4.htm

---------------

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

My thought is

If its not going to be accurate why bother having one...I'm runnig a VP C10 (unleaded non-oxygenated) and pump premium mix...so the sensor should remain accurate throughout its rated life expectancy.

---------------

http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsu4.htm

---------------

How bout this thought too? Once it's adjusted pull the sensor and put a plug in the bung. Once you are adjusted for your area you don't need the sensor anymore. Also, I think Joel is running a way higher boost than us so the option of unleaded is out the window.

Jim

 

[HAMMER]

Once it's adjusted pull the sensor and put a plug in the bung

Paid 400 bucks for the thing........I'm gonna use it........LOL

Once you are adjusted for your area you don't need the sensor anymore.

I ride in many different areas, temps, elevations, snow conditions, and have adjusted my mapping using my O2 sensor every time I ride to suite the conditions. I know, I know, it should be automatic, but it isn't. MPI is claiming a re-write of their programming that has "more automatic" compensations in it.

Joel is running a way higher boost than us so the option of unleaded is out the window

{EDIT for error} Highest unleaded is 101 Motor Octane

 

[Travis Moore]

Once it's adjusted pull the sensor and put a plug in the bung

Paid 400 bucks for the thing........I'm gonna use it........LOL

Once you are adjusted for your area you don't need the sensor anymore.

I ride in many different areas, temps, elevations, snow conditions, and have adjusted my mapping using my O2 sensor every time I ride to suite the conditions. I know, I know, it should be automatic, but it isn't. MPI is claiming a re-write of their programming that has "more automatic" compensations in it.

Joel is running a way higher boost than us so the option of unleaded is out the window

VP and many other fuel suppliers have from 80s all the way up to 120+ motor octane unleaded. Well within the needs of the low compression MCX setup even at max boost.

I've never head of a 120 motor octane unleaded. Hell, there are very few 120+ motor octane leaded fuels available.

 

[HAMMER]

{EDIT for error} Highest unleaded is 101 Motor Octane

------------
VP Specs

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/spec/techbulletin-sportfuels.doc

------------

Race Gas Storage

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=18764

------------

 

[Parker]

I was told By AEM mine would be accurate but wouldn't last very long running so close to the turbo with leaded race fuel, PROBABLY ONLY 10,000 MILES :ORC Oh yah that should make it at least thru this year.

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

Paid 400 bucks for the thing........I'm gonna use it........LOL

I use mine also with the leaded fuel. I just figure for those running leaded and worried about the sensor, it's removal was a viable option.

I ride in many different areas, temps, elevations, snow conditions, .....

I do as well. In the 750 miles I have put on since dialing in the jetting on my carbs; I have ridden from 3273' to 10,398' elevations in temps from -23 F to 32 F. I have never seen the A/F ratio change enough to affect the performance. I made my adjustment on 5 lbs boost with premium unleaded. Once the A/F targets set by MPI were reached for the area I ride the most; I turned up the boost and added VP 110 leaded race fuel.

I am allways between 11 and 11.6 on a hard pull at WFO regardless of temps and elevation. For a hardcore racer this might be too inconsistant but, for me it is acceptable.

 

[Travis Moore]

VP Import & VP NO2 both unleaded 120+ Motor Octane

------------
VP Specs

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/spec/techbulletin-sportfuels.doc

------------

Race Gas Storage

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=18764

------------

VP Import and VP N02 are both leaded fuels, bro.

 

[HAMMER]

I was told By AEM mine would be accurate but wouldn't last very long running so close to the turbo with leaded race fuel, PROBABLY ONLY 10,000 MILES

Went to AEMs site, the AEM kit I see uses a BOSCH sensor. BOSCH data shows as low as 20 hours up to 200 hours with a low lead like AVgas. 1,600 hours for unleaded. I guess its really no big deal to replace $70-$80 part every 20-200hrs for some people. It would bug me.

I have never seen the A/F ratio change enough to affect the performance.

You have an MPI EFI controller on an Apex???. Well I do, and when I unload at 0-15*F 6000ft and set it to 12.0:1 wide open throttle I want it to stay there all day, automatically, it doesn’t. Unfortunately by the time the noonday sun hits and we get above 8500ft it goes rich so I lean it down with the controller to get it back to 12.0:1. The difference between a 11.0:1 run and a 12.0:1 run on my sled is worth about three sled lengths when highmarking in the bowls we ride. Accuracy makes a difference to me, especially when it could hurt the motor (or melt the Ti headers on my Apex...:wink if I'm too lean.

VP Import and VP N02 are both leaded fuels, bro

I’ll put the crack pipe down now. I have no idea why I posed that they were unleaded.
{EDIT for error} Highest unleaded is 101 Motor Octane

 

[peteracing]

Did you guys try the Ngk Ntk sensors? Ntk is part of Ngk spark plug group and they are less sensitive to race fuels!

 

[HAMMER]

Innovate Motorsports............NGK vs BOSCH sensor?

The differences between the sensors are:

1. Bosch has high heat sensitivity. It needs to be actively temperature controlled while the NTK has typically a passive temp. control by holding its heater voltage constant (very simple to do).

2. Bosch is sensitive to housing temp. NTK is not

3. Bosch has about 5-10 times faster response speed than NTK due to its planar design (measured delay time between pump cell current change and sensor cell output: NTK ~50msec, Bosch < 5 msec).

4. Bosch has less than 1/2 the NTK's sensitivity to back pressure. This means the readings are richer than actual on the rich side, leaner than actual on the lean side when on the lean side when back pressure is present.

5. Bosch sensor heats up more than twice as fast than NTK. This means it's also more susceptible to heat shock from condensation water because the NTK's slower warmup allows the exhaust system to warm up before the sensor can be damaged. The Bosch's fast warmup is required for smog reasons (it's main application). On the other hand the NTK is a more open design that is more susceptible to damage when hit by debris or water when hot.

6. With respect to survivability with leaded fuel they are about equal.

For most tuning applications, specially where fast response is required (not steady state load) the Bosch is the better sensor to use. The slower response of the NTK causes 'smearing' of the values. This leads to prettier graphs. A case of pretty vs. true and real (as it's often with girls).

Regards,
Klaus

--------------------

NGK Pages 3 & 5

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/AFX_Tuning_Manual_Rev04.pdf

--------------------