'08 front end geometery versus '09

[sheetwright]

The kit comes with just 4 a-arms, two spindles, ball joints, nuts, and bolts for bottom of shock. I assume your talking about sway bar, it still fits with this kit, they have the mounting point on bottom of lower arm still.

What about bushings, or mounting hardware to the main frame itself? Is that included? I see some companies, have you still buying a few of these items for the MTX, so it will mount to a RTX....

 

[2008FxNytro]

Gotcha, Thanks!

No problem!

 

[2008FxNytro]

The kit comes with just 4 a-arms, two spindles, ball joints, nuts, and bolts for bottom of shock. I assume your talking about sway bar, it still fits with this kit, they have the mounting point on bottom of lower arm still.

What about bushings, or mounting hardware to the main frame itself? Is that included? I see some companies, have you still buying a few of these items for the MTX, so it will mount to a RTX....

Yes sorry, the arms have oil impregnated nylon bushings in them. You have to reuse the hardware for mounting the arms to the sled. the hardware that comes with kit is just the nuts for the ball joints, and the hardware for lower shock mounts because theirs are a little different. (bottom mount is counterbored on each side so they give allen head bolts that fit inside counterbore and washer and nut.)

Yes it will mount to an RTX. Im putting mine on 08 FX.

 

[AKrider]

I was kind of surprised when I called Zbros as the guy I talked to didn't do a good job of explaining why their front end was an improvement over stock, as far as handling goes. They said they built it to simulate the '09 geometry, but since I've read magazine reports that say the '09 Nytros still dart, I'm wondering if it isn't much of an improvement?

He did say the a-arms were made of chromoly and the lower a-arms run a cross brace. The bushings don't sound like they are much different than stock and are certainly not as good as the bronze, oil lite bushings I'm running in my front end.

As far as pricing, the Zbros is less expensive than Yamaha components but I asked them if it had been raced and it didn't sound like it had been race tested. I don't know... I'd sure like to hear what guys think of the '09 geometry who've ridden both the '08 and '09 front ends.

 

[2008FxNytro]

I have not heard much about the 09 geometry. I just know it was supposed to be less aggressive and better over handling. You can stop the darting with a little adjustment. I did with adjusting the middle shock spring. Im running 10 inch carbides on stock skis and it does not dart anywhere near what it did. I bent a couple a arms, so i had to do something and with z bros being way way cheaper than yamaha and stronger im gonna try it. The bushings are not as good as the oilite bronze but def better than stock. they are an oil impregnated nylon.

 

[AKrider]

The issues I have with my Nytro concern its lack of high speed stability. From what I've read about the 09's, now that a season has passed, the magazines seem to say that the handling is not much improved over the '08.

I was hoping the Zbros might have made some additional changes but it doesn't sound like they changed much as far as geometry. The front end does sound like it is built stronger than stock which is a good thing. The stock a-arms tend to twist in race applications or when ridden very hard through the bumps day in and day out.

It could be that I just talked to the wrong person that wasn't much of a salesman, but I felt like I was trying to get him to tell me why the front end was improved over stock. The only thing he brought up right away was that the kit allowed for more ground clearance. I didn't ask about what ball and heim joints the front end used. The original Timbersled front ends used a weak upper heim joint that was not intended for the application. They may have changed that over the past year or two, but the first versions were strictly for mountain riding as they were fragile.

I'm looking forward to reading about how you like the front end. I want to mod my '08 for better stability but I'm on the fence as to the best way to get there.

 

[2008FxNytro]

unfortunately i cant give any feedback until we get snow. But i will be sure to do so. As i stated they sent me the mountain kit by accident and the fit was very nice just too narrow for me obviously. arms seemed to be built well and tough while adding a good look to sled also. The guy i talked to was kevin. He also did not have much information, but i had to do something and this kit was at least going to be as good but most likely better than my 08 stock....We will see

 

[mach9]

I had an 08 Nytro and traded it fast as soon as I knew the 09 was changed. (took a decent loss too)
But I went into an XTX that has a differnt skid profile aswell (flatter IMHO).
Plus the 121" skid is just not enough to handle all the torque motor has down low.
The 08 nytro was not cool.
With crazy transfer along with the front end quirks.
Fun for some, but kinda dangerous to people new to snowmobiles.
For eg. If you were standing up and going easy, not full out.
Then took one hand of the bars and turned your head to look back.
The next thing you know... Front ski hooks to one side and you are on the edge of flipping over.
And gets worse as the bushings and ball joints wear out. (prematurely)
Thus why so many people took to this site looking for a fix.

As far as I'm concerned the 09 XTX was night and day better over the 08 Nytro. But again on the 09... the bushings and ball joints seem to be wearing out fast.
And then I assume some of the wierd handling issues will start to show up again.

Cheers

 

[AKrider]

The '08 front end definitely wore out bushings and ball joints at a fast rate. My lower ball joints were loose at 500 miles. I replaced ball joints and upgraded to oil-lite bushings at around 900 miles and the front end has stayed tight. The stock bushings and ball joints were not durable enough for XC racing.

The XTX handling brings in the varible of the longer track and Vector based rear skid. I seem to remember reading a review of the RTX SE and they said its handling still had issues with stability.

I'd love to hear more from guys who've ridden or owned both the '08 and then a new Nytro and see what they think of how the newer geometry compares to '08.

 

[Bigblue1]

Akrider,

I don't race my Nytro but I am a very aggressive big rider. I have driven both and it is not worth the coin in my opinion for the 09. I chose to address the original suspension. i updated the bushings, machined the ball joins ( lots of threads on this) added the HyGear triple rate springs,( which actually lower the suspension but provide more usable travel), dual rate Center Shock Spring re-valved for my weight/riding style, and opted for a set of Curve skis. Probably spent the same as Zbros but now I can flat out jam with no twitchyness in the corners.... tracks flat and takes the moguls in control at speed. For those who say that the quick response is meant for aggressive riders... B.S., I have been hauling on sleds for a long time and before I completed the upgrades it was the most unpredictable machine I have ever ridden. i even had a snow crosser ride it (Ski Doo XP guy) and he said it was nuts. Just found that the combination of the items above really settled things down and made it the ride i thought I was getting. My 2 cents. Good Luck!

 

[sheetwright]

Akrider,

I don't race my Nytro but I am a very aggressive big rider. I have driven both and it is not worth the coin in my opinion for the 09. I chose to address the original suspension. i updated the bushings, machined the ball joins ( lots of threads on this) added the HyGear triple rate springs,( which actually lower the suspension but provide more usable travel), dual rate Center Shock Spring re-valved for my weight/riding style, and opted for a set of Curve skis. Probably spent the same as Zbros but now I can flat out jam with no twitchyness in the corners.... tracks flat and takes the moguls in control at speed. For those who say that the quick response is meant for aggressive riders... B.S., I have been hauling on sleds for a long time and before I completed the upgrades it was the most unpredictable machine I have ever ridden. i even had a snow crosser ride it (Ski Doo XP guy) and he said it was nuts. Just found that the combination of the items above really settled things down and made it the ride i thought I was getting. My 2 cents. Good Luck!

The funny thing is I did basically the same things you did. Just using a couple of different brands/companies. I don't seem to have anymore problems with mine either. Corners, and handles bumps great. Just have never ridden an 09 to know if it is better then my mod's. All I know is I was unhappy with my ride in the begining, and now I love it. IMO of course.

 

[2008FxNytro]

Just received my front end this morning. going to install it and start getting sled back together. Gonna try to leave everything i had set the way it was last year and see what the difference is with just the new front end....hopefully its as good as before or better. With little adjustments i had my 08 handling pretty well. I know the guys from hygear are really good but man its a lot of money to get a complete kit done, just hard to justify spending that money for a few sinple things....

 

[AKrider]

Bigblue,
I've checked out the Hygear site before and they do have a nice set up. It is really good to hear that it made the '08 work like a sled should!

Last year I wanted to convert my sled to the '09 front end but was hesitant about spending the money. I was told that the '09 front end did not have enough geometry changes to make a big difference, especially for the dollars spent.

2008,
Maybe you could post some pics of your kit before you install it, if you get a chance? It would be really cool to see the difference between the new a-arms and the Zbroz.

 

[2008FxNytro]

AK, you wanna see the arms and what not before its on the sled or you want me to install it on the frame and take pics before i put the whole front back on??

 

[AKrider]

I'd really like to see how both the upper and lower arms compare to stock as they are lying on the floor next to each other. It would be really interesting to see how the arms compare in size and if there are any obvious geometry changes.

I've not ruled out the kit in my mind. One of the mods my buddy did was to weld cross braces into the stock a-arms to give them greater strength and to help with reducing the twist when hitting bumps. I've not yet welded my stock a-arms and was hesitant to do so as I wanted to see how my buddy's held up over time.