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09 handwarmer resistance

justinator said:
I know this isnt the answer everyone wants to hear or I want to hear for that matter but I own a set of leather mittens my mother purchased in canada for me about 7 or 8 years ago. I know mittens arent at the top for the cool factor and all but I have never wore a glove or mitten that is warm like these. My apex has the 06 bars on it and I dont even feel the heat from the bar unless it is over 30 degrees outside and I am running them on 4 or 5 when Im wearing these mittens and we all know that is smokin hot on 06 bars. I will try to find the make of these mittens so if anyone is interested in them. I know this isnt a fix for lackluster handwarmers but its sure better than warming your hands on the tailpipe every 15 miles and they were only about $35-40 at the time. Still gloves are much nicer but I have spent big money on gloves and still got cold fingers.
Click to expand...

How do you use your finger to pull the brake if they are mittens? Do you have to use your whole hand?
 

BLUEBALLER said:
nytro stock
total = 54W @ 14V
27 W ea grip
amps = 3.86
Click to expand...

Did you measure the voltage? I am curious as to what the handlebar switch actually controls? Or rather what changes when you change the thumb switch.
 
ruffryder said:
BLUEBALLER said:
nytro stock
total = 54W @ 14V
27 W ea grip
amps = 3.86
Click to expand...

Did you measure the voltage? I am curious as to what the handlebar switch actually controls? Or rather what changes when you change the thumb switch.
Click to expand...

I don't have the proper digital multimeter here at home. I've got a true RMS meter at work that I can take accurate measurements with. I'll measure both voltage & current at each of the switchs 10 increments and you'll know exactly how much power is going to the grips at each level.

I've calculated it out already and I'm going to be installing a 4 ohm resistor in series with each hotgrip. Also, I'm adding a 5 Amp fuse for each grip as well. Currently if you were to short out your current heating elements, there is no protection of the ECU.

Measurements won't be for a few weeks though.
 
If what I've been told is true, you'll need to have the engine running above 4500 rpm to see voltage changes in the grip circuit.

Is the 4-Ohm resistor intended to bring the circuit resistance up to the same level as the stock grip?
 
arteeex said:
If what I've been told is true, you'll need to have the engine running above 4500 rpm to see voltage changes in the grip circuit.

Is the 4-Ohm resistor intended to bring the circuit resistance up to the same level as the stock grip?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've heard the 4500 rpm info as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

The 4 ohm resistor will bring it extremely close to factory specs.

nytro stock
left heating element- 7.3 ohms
right heating element- 7.2 ohms
parallel - 3.62 ohms
total power = 54W @ 14V
27 W ea grip
amps = 3.86

hotgrips wired in parallel w/ 4 ohm resistor
total = 3.5 ohms
56 watts total @ 14V
28 watts each grip
amps = 4
5 or 7.5 amp fuse needed for each hotgrip to protect ECU just in case!
 
If you add a resistor in line with the circuit and the overall resistance matches the OEM resistance you will not see any change in heat level at the grip (unless I'm forgetting something as I have had a few :drink: ). Also if you add a resistor make sure it's rated for the wattage required. Back in 06'-07' when I was consisdering doing the same type of thing to my Apex the issue I had was finding a resistor I believe 4 ohms at 50W, ten finding a place to put it. Remember that this resistor will get hot so it must be mounted so that it wont melt anything and should have air flow to it to help it cool. As with anything electrical, if it gets too hot you let the smoke out. :o|
 
Got Apex RTX? said:
If you add a resistor in line with the circuit and the overall resistance matches the OEM resistance you will not see any change in heat level at the grip (unless I'm forgetting something as I have had a few :drink: ). Also if you add a resistor make sure it's rated for the wattage required. Back in 06'-07' when I was consisdering doing the same type of thing to my Apex the issue I had was finding a resistor I believe 4 ohms at 50W, ten finding a place to put it. Remember that this resistor will get hot so it must be mounted so that it wont melt anything and should have air flow to it to help it cool. As with anything electrical, if it gets too hot you let the smoke out. :o|
Click to expand...

I'm 99% sure it'll be good to go with the hotgrips close to oem specs. I have the same grips on my SXR and they get SMOKING hot at 26W per grip. The only difference between the two sleds is HOW they get that voltage. The SXR is a constant voltage, whereas on the nytro it is pulsed. IF I find the wattage isn't to my liking, and I can use a little more heat outta the grips, then I'll just run a lower resistor to get a little more juice.

I was gonna install a couple of 4 ohm, 50 watt power resistors - they'll be mounted with plenty of room to cool down -good to go. I don't think they'll generate much if any heat with the ambient temp so bloody cold. Resistors are only like a buck or two ea., so I'm willing to experiment a bit.

The reason the hotgrips are so effective is because of their superior design. Isolation from the bars is one of the key ingredients. Something the oem elements were lacking.

Check em out if you haven't already.

http://www.hotgrips.com/index.php
 
The Nytro may be like the Apex where the magneto puts out its maximum voltage at 5000 rpm which may be translated through the ECM. Putting a resistor on the supply to the grips will lower your voltage giving you less heat. The only way a resistor will make a difference is if you supply it with battery voltage directly. The resistance in the heater and the applied voltage is key here. If the heaters were wired directly to battery voltage and were supplied with 14volts at 5000 rpm a potentiometer could be used to vary that voltage and give you adjust-ability. The handle bar adjustment will then be void. Also don't forget that resistivity of electrical components change with temperature. The colder it is the less resistance your components have. This will need to be taken into consideration when working on this because doing it in your garage now is not the same as the operating environment in the middle of February.
I have done some current draws and posted them in the Apex thread of 06 bars. This may help to determine a fuse size but I don't have that setup to say for sure.
I was thinking of supplying mine with magneto voltage and using a variable resistor ( potentiometer ) to vary the output of the heaters instead of fixed resistance. The older Cats were done this way with a two position switch. Hi and low. One had resistance of one value and the other position had a different value.
I hope this makes sense, it's late and it hurts to think like this at this time. :o|
 
I'm interested in your experiment. If you don't burn down your garage in the process I'll give it try too.

I expect the power density is higher in the smaller Hot Grip (vs. the stock unit), so you can get by with a lower resistance value.

If you're really clever you'll figure out how to mount those 4-Ohm resistors under the grips to capture their output as well.
 
Sorry to ramble on but I have never been to the Hot Grips site until Blueballer posted the link. They have it figured out for you. On the accessories page on the bottom right they have a PWM controller that should work with all of our systems. Wired to our grips supplied by our regulator/ rectifier which is DC voltage we may be able to use our existing grips. The magneto puts out AC voltage that is converted to DC by the rectifier.
Apex grips are 1.83 ohms-2.24 ohms at 20c or 68f. Magneto is capable of 14v, 35amps/490 watts at 5000rpm. Rec/reg controls it at 14.1-14.9 volts/35 amps able to withstand 40v.
When I get some time I will purchase this and test it. Report back when it's done. Peace out.

http://www.hotgrips.com/heat_controller.php


Maybe this should be posted in the Apex thread,feel free moderators.
 
arteeex said:
I'm interested in your experiment. If you don't burn down your garage in the process I'll give it try too.

I expect the power density is higher in the smaller Hot Grip (vs. the stock unit), so you can get by with a lower resistance value.

If you're really clever you'll figure out how to mount those 4-Ohm resistors under the grips to capture their output as well.
Click to expand...

No worries on the garage, this is my gig. ;)!
 
Timeline said:
Sorry to ramble on but I have never been to the Hot Grips site until Blueballer posted the link. They have it figured out for you. On the accessories page on the bottom right they have a PWM controller that should work with all of our systems. Wired to our grips supplied by our regulator/ rectifier which is DC voltage we may be able to use our existing grips. The magneto puts out AC voltage that is converted to DC by the rectifier.
Apex grips are 1.83 ohms-2.24 ohms at 20c or 68f. Magneto is capable of 14v, 35amps/490 watts at 5000rpm. Rec/reg controls it at 14.1-14.9 volts/35 amps able to withstand 40v.
When I get some time I will purchase this and test it. Report back when it's done. Peace out.

http://www.hotgrips.com/heat_controller.php


Maybe this should be posted in the Apex thread,feel free moderators.
Click to expand...


That controller is basically doing what your ECU is doing - PWM. Why add it when it's already there?

Much easier/cheaper to do the math and calculate what size resistor you'll need to limit the current going through your ECU. We know it's rated at approx. 4 amps, I'm just trying to size the proper resistor to keep it happy.

That's just the stubborn/cheap side of me coming out. lol

Whatever route you decide, Good luck!
 
Blue, for some reason I forgot you were using the Hot Grips. Never-never mind my statement above.
 
Just some information for you guys....

I did quite a bit of investigation into the grips on my '06 Nytro. This same problem reared it ugly head way back then. To make a long story short, the '06 grips were cold, the '07 update kit wasn't any better ... the solution was to use the '06 grips wired in the '07 fashion. i'm sure many of you have seen the 40 or 50 page thread on this topic.

This situation will be no different on your FX Nytros. And when you measure the voltage at different RPMs, or settings you will find no change. I measured the voltage output using a Fluke meter (kinda-like an oscilliscope). The voltage actually never changes with different settings. The voltage is always 12V. What does change is the signal. It is a PWM waveform ... that simply turns on/off at different rates for different settings.

Think of it this way ... turn a light switch on, then quickly turn it off. Then wait a while and repeat. This is like a low setting on the warmers. For a higher setting the on time of the light is longer, and the off time is shorter. This is what creates more heat.

Now, if you want to add a resistor to get more current, and thus increase the wattage ... your thinking along the right path. Putting a resistor in parallel with the grips will drop the total resistance, and allow more current to flow, thus increasing the wattage. HOWEVER ... you will not get any more heat. This is because you will have increased the total current draw, not the current draw through the grips themselves.

So here are your options ... Option 1 - change out to the '06 grips offered by Yamaha if you can find them. Your newer sleds will already be wired correctly for them to work. Option 2 - get some aftermarket grips that have a higher wattage.

Trust me on this analysis .... my day-job is Electrical Engineer.
 
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