snowriderjoe
Extreme
Sorry in advance for the long story
Last spring on what was supposed to be my last ride of the season I got my sled out of the trailer and it started just fine. I let it warm up and went inside to get ready to go.
Came back out to take off and the sled would not start. It turned over just fine, but no fire. After several attempts to start the engine light came on and Code 12 came up (Crankshaft position sensor). I took a quick look on this forum then and some people said it could be the starter relay. Seemed kind of weird since the starter was working fine, but I decided to try jumping the contacts on the relay anyway. After a couple of attempts the sled actually started. Started and stopped it a few times this way and all seemed good. So I thought I would ride and just start it this way. Let it sit and when ready to go tried to start it and same issue, Code 12 and no start. This time it would not start at all.
So I ended up not riding it and took it to my dealer to see if they could figure it out and probably replace the crankshaft position sensor.
They checked it out and told me it was not the sensor or the starter relay. They said it was probably the main wiring harness (either rubbed thru somewhere or corroded connections). They said they were able to start the sled after wiggling the harness in places. They said it would cost as much for them to replace the harness than to try to find the issue with it so they recommended replacing the harness for almost $1000. I told them I would do it myself and took the sled home. It started right up when I picked it up and again a week ago when I decided to dig into it.
So I decided I would go thru every inch of the harness looking for a rub or short and check all of the connections. I just got done doing that which is no easy task. I basically have torn the sled apart to make sure I could see and disconnect everything. I also pulled the clutch off so I could take a look at the crankshaft position sensor. BTW, I also tested the resistance on the sensor per the shop manual. It is supposed to be between 336 and 504 ohms and it tested at 436. So I'm assuming it is OK. And I have removed the nuisance casting nub that was supposed to cause rubbing issues when I first bought the sled, so that is not the issue (harness looked just fine in that area)
So now I am frustrated and not sure what to do. I'm looking for ideas/advice from anyone that might have also had this issue.
Wondering a few things:
-Could it still be the CSPS even though it tests within spec? I also looked at the sensor wires and they look fine.
-Could there be something going on under the wrap of the main wire harness that isn't apparent without taking it apart (wires rubbing together)?
-Could it be the starter relay? Maybe something internal sending a bad signal to the ECU? $33 to replace
-Something wrong with the ECU? Is there a way to test it? Cost is $500
-One of the other shitty relays? (I've had plenty of trouble with the fuel pump one)
-Any other ideas?
I really don't want to spend $400 for a harness and find out that's not the issue.
The CSPS is $85, so not too bad but still a waste of money if that's not what it is.
I just don't want to do something and still have the issue when I am in the middle of nowhere.
Again, sorry for the long post but I'm hoping someone will read this and have some good advice.
Thanks
Last spring on what was supposed to be my last ride of the season I got my sled out of the trailer and it started just fine. I let it warm up and went inside to get ready to go.
Came back out to take off and the sled would not start. It turned over just fine, but no fire. After several attempts to start the engine light came on and Code 12 came up (Crankshaft position sensor). I took a quick look on this forum then and some people said it could be the starter relay. Seemed kind of weird since the starter was working fine, but I decided to try jumping the contacts on the relay anyway. After a couple of attempts the sled actually started. Started and stopped it a few times this way and all seemed good. So I thought I would ride and just start it this way. Let it sit and when ready to go tried to start it and same issue, Code 12 and no start. This time it would not start at all.
So I ended up not riding it and took it to my dealer to see if they could figure it out and probably replace the crankshaft position sensor.
They checked it out and told me it was not the sensor or the starter relay. They said it was probably the main wiring harness (either rubbed thru somewhere or corroded connections). They said they were able to start the sled after wiggling the harness in places. They said it would cost as much for them to replace the harness than to try to find the issue with it so they recommended replacing the harness for almost $1000. I told them I would do it myself and took the sled home. It started right up when I picked it up and again a week ago when I decided to dig into it.
So I decided I would go thru every inch of the harness looking for a rub or short and check all of the connections. I just got done doing that which is no easy task. I basically have torn the sled apart to make sure I could see and disconnect everything. I also pulled the clutch off so I could take a look at the crankshaft position sensor. BTW, I also tested the resistance on the sensor per the shop manual. It is supposed to be between 336 and 504 ohms and it tested at 436. So I'm assuming it is OK. And I have removed the nuisance casting nub that was supposed to cause rubbing issues when I first bought the sled, so that is not the issue (harness looked just fine in that area)
So now I am frustrated and not sure what to do. I'm looking for ideas/advice from anyone that might have also had this issue.
Wondering a few things:
-Could it still be the CSPS even though it tests within spec? I also looked at the sensor wires and they look fine.
-Could there be something going on under the wrap of the main wire harness that isn't apparent without taking it apart (wires rubbing together)?
-Could it be the starter relay? Maybe something internal sending a bad signal to the ECU? $33 to replace
-Something wrong with the ECU? Is there a way to test it? Cost is $500
-One of the other shitty relays? (I've had plenty of trouble with the fuel pump one)
-Any other ideas?
I really don't want to spend $400 for a harness and find out that's not the issue.
The CSPS is $85, so not too bad but still a waste of money if that's not what it is.
I just don't want to do something and still have the issue when I am in the middle of nowhere.
Again, sorry for the long post but I'm hoping someone will read this and have some good advice.
Thanks
yam429
Expert
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My wiring harness was NOT rubbing on that nub it was rubbing where the radiator bracket mounts to the frame on the clutch side of the sled. Look on the backside of that frame piece the wiring harness runs behind it and it rubs there on the frame. I can text you a pic if you want?
snowriderjoe
Extreme
Well, I just got done unwrapping about 2.5 feet of the wiring harness from the ECU to the connection with the fuel injection harness (up near the top before it goes across the steering column) looking for issues with the wires. So far nothing. I took everything apart up to the individual connectors and also inspected the connectors. All of the wires look good.
I guess another night in the garage taking the rest of it apart. I really thought I would find something thru that area. Getting really frustrated!
I guess another night in the garage taking the rest of it apart. I really thought I would find something thru that area. Getting really frustrated!
Crewchief47
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- 2008 Nytro MTX 45th
You could still have a bad Crank sensor even though the resistance is good. That doesn't mean it is good but if you don't find a wire issue, I would throw a crank sensor at it.
Port-Parts
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2018 Sidewinder BTX SE
Id first take a good look at that starter relay and its electrical connector - on the nytro models that relay sits underneath the right side panel vent and lots of snow/moisture lands on top of it and causes corrosion in the connector and on the relay internally. The 10 amp fuse on top of the starter relay supplies power to the fuel pump relay and the corrosion issue can prevent power from getting there - sometimes intermittently. With this issue we have still seen the sleds crank over fine with that circuit of the starter relay still working normally which is what your post states. The true test would have been to notice if when your sled wasnt starting was the fuel pump running when cycling the key - if not the starter relay corrosion issue could have been the problem. At this point id recommend checking that starter relay connection for corrosion and if you find any replace the starter relay, clean the electrical connector and pack it full of dielectric grease on reassembly.
yamahamm
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- 2008 yamaha nytro mtx mcx 270
my nytro whas like this. the yamaha-shop tested the crank sensor and find it to be ok. but found out later that the crank sensor was the problem. when tested it can give you the right resistance but still be broken. they found out by swapping a sensor from one nytro they had in the shop. mine did give fault codes 33-34-35. so it was a pita to figure out the problem. (mine is a 08mod nytro mtx)
snowriderjoe
Extreme
Yeah, I'm thinking about that. If I get thru all of the wiring and don't find anything I'll probably do that.
snow_rider
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- 2018 Sidewinder LTX-LE 50th
I was working on my 08 and found that the contacts on the connector coming off the key switch were corroded! If I jiggled it around it would crank. I ended up popping the pins out, cleaning them up and now it starts just fine. Not sure if this could be your issue?
snowriderjoe
Extreme
Well, I just got done checking the rest of my wiring and no apparent issues. Also checked the connection for the key switch and all others.
All looked good with no sign of corrosion.
So, I'm pretty sure it is not the wiring harness.
So, I am going to replace the crankshaft position sensor, starter relay and fuel pump relay. The starter relay did actually have a little bit of corrosion at the connector and who knows what it looks like on the inside. Not sure if any of these could be the electrical culprit, but don't know what else to try and it's cheaper than a harness.
Can anyone tell me if the new 2014 red solid state fuel pump relay will work on my '09 and what the correct part number is (see a separate post that I added for this).
Thanks
All looked good with no sign of corrosion.
So, I'm pretty sure it is not the wiring harness.
So, I am going to replace the crankshaft position sensor, starter relay and fuel pump relay. The starter relay did actually have a little bit of corrosion at the connector and who knows what it looks like on the inside. Not sure if any of these could be the electrical culprit, but don't know what else to try and it's cheaper than a harness.
Can anyone tell me if the new 2014 red solid state fuel pump relay will work on my '09 and what the correct part number is (see a separate post that I added for this).
Thanks
Dimebag
TY 4 Stroke God
Yes it will work.
P/N 8GN-81950-00-00
P/N 8GN-81950-00-00
Port-Parts
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2018 Sidewinder BTX SE
8GN-81950-00-00 is the correct part number for the new red solid state fuel pump relay and it will definitely work on your 09.
That corrosion on your starter relay can prevent power from ever getting to the fuel pump relay and being corrosion it can cause very intermittent results. Ive seen it many times where the starter relay will do its primary function of cranking the sled over but that corrosion in the connector/relay causes a different circuit that runs through the starter relay to not function properly and prevents power from ever getting to the fuel pump relay - thus causing a no start. Seen this mainly on nytro models but have also seen it on apex's as well.
That corrosion on your starter relay can prevent power from ever getting to the fuel pump relay and being corrosion it can cause very intermittent results. Ive seen it many times where the starter relay will do its primary function of cranking the sled over but that corrosion in the connector/relay causes a different circuit that runs through the starter relay to not function properly and prevents power from ever getting to the fuel pump relay - thus causing a no start. Seen this mainly on nytro models but have also seen it on apex's as well.
snowriderjoe
Extreme
Is there a better/newer starter relay I should replace the old one with?
I have a starter relay and a fuel pump relay that I can send you if you want to give it a try. They are not new but are good. I bought new ones(Solid State for fuel) and was simply going to keep this as a spare in the event I or someone else had a problem. I don't think there is a better one out there.
snowriderjoe
Extreme
Can you just send me the part number for the solid state fuel pump relay? Is it the red one?
Thanks.
Thanks.
http://www.partspitstop.com/oemparts/a/ ... ectrical-1
8GN-81950-00-00
The relays are $10 at partspitstop.com. for that price I decided to replace all mine and keep the old ones for spares. At least i dont have to worry about the relay freezing up(not like I did before)
they are listed under teh 2014 Nytro's
8GN-81950-00-00
The relays are $10 at partspitstop.com. for that price I decided to replace all mine and keep the old ones for spares. At least i dont have to worry about the relay freezing up(not like I did before)
they are listed under teh 2014 Nytro's
