2 questions on the new 08's

[Sled Dog]

When Yamaha made the 4 cyl. a fuel injected sled, it lost a couple of m.p.g. That is why they left the 3 cyl. a carbed sled, for mileage. I bought the sled for mileage, nothing more or less.

The 4 Cylinder sled lost mileage because of a GEARING change from the RX-1 to Apex. Not Fuel Injection, there is no way the fuel injection is less efficient than carbs.

QC I am not sure they are to tell you the truth. The carb versions also start better in the bitter cold. 4 carbs per cylinder very well could be more efficient.

 

[pro116]

When Yamaha made the 4 cyl. a fuel injected sled, it lost a couple of m.p.g. That is why they left the 3 cyl. a carbed sled, for mileage. I bought the sled for mileage, nothing more or less.

The cams play a big factor in the fuel milage.They have more hp which is going to drop your fuel milage.
The rx1's have the r1 cams in it and the apex have the r1 race cams in it.

 

[ReX]

The new Vector is very disappointing. It is supposed to be their groomed trail sled. It is one of the coldest chassis on the market to ride and what happened to the fuel injection. HEY YAMAHA it is 2008 nobody still uses carbs.

All this talk about the Apex chassis being the colest chassis on the market...

Have any of you ridden one with the large windshield?

My 07 RTX is significantly warmer than my old RX-1, which is identical to the 05-07 Vector as far as warmth. Compared to my wife's 1998 Venture 700 touring it is very similar for warmth and I consider her sled to be one of the warmest chassis on the market.

I spent quite a few -35°C nights cruising at fairly high speeds for hours and hours and not once did I get cold in any way. I was much colder on the old RX-1/Vector chassis.

I think part of the reason the Apex chassis with the large windshield is so warm is because of the rider forward position. You sit very close to the windshield and this helps keep the wind off you, even with a narrower windshield than the older cruising sleds had.

Also, as far as touring comfort, this is the most comfortable sled I've ever owned. IMO, the riding position is perfect for long distance touring.

Here are a couple of pictures. As you can see there is lots of protection from the wind, including the hands and head (keep in mind that the handlebars are quite tall too and still well protected).

 

[QCRider]

QC I am not sure they are to tell you the truth. The carb versions also start better in the bitter cold. 4 carbs per cylinder very well could be more efficient.

I don't know about the starting, but EFI is definitely more efficient than carbs, if they were not we would still be driving carburated cars. The gearing change from the RX-1 to the Apex is the major cause of the reduced mileage.

 

[Stu]

I'm not so sure that EFI is more efficient so much as less maintanence and less reliability issues.

 

[ReX]

QC I am not sure they are to tell you the truth. The carb versions also start better in the bitter cold. 4 carbs per cylinder very well could be more efficient.

I don't know about the starting, but EFI is definitely more efficient than carbs, if they were not we would still be driving carburated cars. The gearing change from the RX-1 to the Apex is the major cause of the reduced mileage.

EFI is only more efficient only if its designed to be more efficient.

To have the most efficient burn you really need an O2 sensor and knock sensor to fully optimize the fuel mixture and timing. Every single gasoline powered car currently in production has both (to the best of my knowledge). Back in the early 80's cars first came out with EFI and even they had O2 sensors. It is with closed loop fuel injection systems that the automotive world saw a significant improvement to fuel economy.

The Apex doesn't have either and essentially it bases the amount of fuel and ignition timing on pre-programmed fuel maps and as input uses a number of sensors. It appears to be designed to provide maximum hp, not maximum fuel economy. There is no closed loop optimization to fully optimize the fuel and timing while cruising so it simply cannot optimize the fuel and timing to the same degree that a closed loop system can. The only automotive applications I'm aware of without O2 sensors are off-road dedicated race cars and these use a similar system to the Apex and are optimized on a dyno for maximum horsepower.

This is fine for a sled with current sled emission standards and little consumer pressure to fully optimize fuel economy. These sleds still run very well and have lots of power - but this type of open loop EFI is unlikely to be any better for fuel economy than a well tuned carburetor (and there is no reason at all that it couldn't be worse).

As pointed out before the gearing change between the RX-1 and Apex is only a few percent and the clutching can easily compensate for this if the engine needed to operate at the same rpms as the RX-1 motor. The more aggressive camshafts used in the Apex are a much more likely source for the reduced fuel economy, but I still expect a closed loop fuel injection system would show a significant boost to fuel economy.

 

[Kråkan]

PRO116 im sorry if it sounds like I am cutting people down....

Roger, my point was just that u cant compare speeds between 2 brands just looking at the speedo, maybe not eaven 2 models of the same brand...

When i read the post its not that obvius and for that i apologise...

 

[SlowPoke]

Now that just cant be true...???

If your venture has alittle miles on it will be around 95-100 on the dreamometer, but there is no way in hell a pol 600 will do 115mph.... My cusins edge 600 with pipes etc will not outrun me on my nytro and i go ~105mph on the dreamometer.. And a friends edge 700 wont pull away on top eighter... after GPS testing yesterday we came up with an avarage of 151km/h ~94mph.

Maybe your pol 600 twin had an EXTRADREAMY DREAMOMETER!!! and then why look at it?? Alittle off topic but to go more than 15mph faster than a sled with 120hp u NEED more HP!!!!! And if your RS venture is cold. TRY this windshield!!!! It is std on the longer venture in Sweden... Ugly like hell but great windprotection...

http://www.yamaha-motor.se/produkter/sn ... ure_tf.jsp

My god ol' trusty '95 XLT is geard down (one tooth bigger on top and one tooth smaller on the bottom) and it can hit 103 on the gps. so I could see 115 might be possible with the right set up.

 

[ReX]

BTW, I finally got those pictures posted above (scroll up...).

 

[PAMikeC]

I have to agree. You can get good mileage out of carbs and good mileage out of Fuel Injection. What you can't do with carbs it get is setup in closed loop like you can Fuel Injection. Fuel injection is also much more reliable in cold starting if done correctly. Especially when you use regular carbs vs. Variable Venture ones that are on bikes and sleds. Back in the 'late 70's early '80's I put myself through college working on cars. As soon as the cold weather hit we got busier then hell fixing chokes and all sorts of stuff on carbs. I talk to guys now and that part of the business is all but over!

 

[Roger]

i can see why all those polar-asses were warm, none of them could break 60 mph.

My last polar-#*$&@ hit 115 m.p.h. on the river with the wife on the back. I have yet to see 100 m.p.h. on the 700 Venture or the RS Venture.