sandy8657
Pro
Just surfing the net and checking all (3) other brands of snowmobiles and took the time to view Ski-Doo's "2-Tec" advertisement about why they are trying to push their logic that 2 strokes are better than 4 strokes.
I am a long time Yamaha rider when Yamaha only made 2 Strokes.
My first sled was a SL-351 and my first motorcycle was an AT-125C
I remember when Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki only made 2 Strokes and Honda was the only manufacturer making 4 Strokes. I was there when Yamaha starting making 4 Stroke motorcycles, the XS-1 650, and I was there when Honda ventured into 2 Stroke motorcycles, with their El-Sinore motocross bikes. I currently have two 2 stroke sleds in my garage, a 1998 SRX700 with 8000 miles and a 2002 SXViper 700cc. with about 6000 miles. Most of my fellow riders are afraid that when their 2 Stroke sled ( regardless of brand ) starts reaching 6000-8000 miles, they fear that the motor is due for a rebuild. We also have two 4 Stroke sleds in our garage, a 2005 Vector (triple) and a 2006 Apex GT( four cylinder)
and knowing Yamaha or even every other Japanese manufacturer of 4 Stroke engines, they are designed to run for thousands of miles. I dont think its unreasonable to believe that you can probably get 75,000 to 100,000 miles out of a 4 Stroke snowmobile. Ive seen where Apex riders have gotten 273 miles out of a tank of gas ( 27.3 m.p.g.) Ive riden with guys who have 800 Revs, and Mack Z's and were lucky to get 100 miles from a tank full. We've pulled many back to the gas pumps. I'm NOT bashing any brands, I believe 4 Strokes are the future of snowmobiling just like they became the future of street legal motorcycles. Eventually, emissions standards will continue to get tougher and tougher and 2 Stroke snowmobiles will no longer be seen on dealership floors, but only at those vintage snowmobile shows.
4 Strokes are definately the future.
Not just for Yamaha, but for the entire snowmobiling industry!!!!!
I am a long time Yamaha rider when Yamaha only made 2 Strokes.
My first sled was a SL-351 and my first motorcycle was an AT-125C
I remember when Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki only made 2 Strokes and Honda was the only manufacturer making 4 Strokes. I was there when Yamaha starting making 4 Stroke motorcycles, the XS-1 650, and I was there when Honda ventured into 2 Stroke motorcycles, with their El-Sinore motocross bikes. I currently have two 2 stroke sleds in my garage, a 1998 SRX700 with 8000 miles and a 2002 SXViper 700cc. with about 6000 miles. Most of my fellow riders are afraid that when their 2 Stroke sled ( regardless of brand ) starts reaching 6000-8000 miles, they fear that the motor is due for a rebuild. We also have two 4 Stroke sleds in our garage, a 2005 Vector (triple) and a 2006 Apex GT( four cylinder)
and knowing Yamaha or even every other Japanese manufacturer of 4 Stroke engines, they are designed to run for thousands of miles. I dont think its unreasonable to believe that you can probably get 75,000 to 100,000 miles out of a 4 Stroke snowmobile. Ive seen where Apex riders have gotten 273 miles out of a tank of gas ( 27.3 m.p.g.) Ive riden with guys who have 800 Revs, and Mack Z's and were lucky to get 100 miles from a tank full. We've pulled many back to the gas pumps. I'm NOT bashing any brands, I believe 4 Strokes are the future of snowmobiling just like they became the future of street legal motorcycles. Eventually, emissions standards will continue to get tougher and tougher and 2 Stroke snowmobiles will no longer be seen on dealership floors, but only at those vintage snowmobile shows.
4 Strokes are definately the future.
Not just for Yamaha, but for the entire snowmobiling industry!!!!!
The only benefit 2 strokes can truely claim is the weight to power issue. 4 stroke is a better motor overall in all applications. Once the weight factor is neutralized, the 2 stroke offers nothing. This is only a matter of time...
journeyman
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I had the opportunity to ride an extended number of miles this past wednesday on a brand new REV800 Renegade w/ the new Powertek engine. If this is the future of snowmobiling in Ski-Doo's eyes..no thanks. Sure the motor has nice thick midrange, but it really should be called the VIBRATOR. I never in all my life felt so much vibration through the bars and in my feet from a sleds engine. Especially when down low in the RPM range. Also we had them out on the lake and I expected it to smoke my Viper. Didn't happen. It was literally a dead heat......side by side. From a standing start, yes, he could out accelerate me, but rolling at 80mph and hit it.....dead even. Now try this same thing with the APEX. My Viper doesn't have a prayer. The new APEX is an awesome sled. I got to demo both the GT and an ATTAK. I know what I want next. A 4-stroke for sure and most likely one of these two sleds.
Oh did I mention I had the REV in some major moguls? It wasn't as great as I was expecting. The rear end did well, but I got a beating in my hands. Alot of the pounding comes up through the bars with such a rider forward stance. Also I am kind of tall and my knees were very uncomfortable banging against the plastic sides where your knees rest.
I tell you what. All the sledders I saw in the UP, the buzz talk sure seemed to focus on the new APEXes even from brand X riders. IMO, this sled sure has changed alot of peoples perception about 4-strokes. We didn't have any in our group, but we had four RX-1's and they sure are nice to ride behind with no 2-stroke smoke. They also come out on top at the gas pump too.
Oh did I mention I had the REV in some major moguls? It wasn't as great as I was expecting. The rear end did well, but I got a beating in my hands. Alot of the pounding comes up through the bars with such a rider forward stance. Also I am kind of tall and my knees were very uncomfortable banging against the plastic sides where your knees rest.
I tell you what. All the sledders I saw in the UP, the buzz talk sure seemed to focus on the new APEXes even from brand X riders. IMO, this sled sure has changed alot of peoples perception about 4-strokes. We didn't have any in our group, but we had four RX-1's and they sure are nice to ride behind with no 2-stroke smoke. They also come out on top at the gas pump too.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
27 MPG out of a apex gt.. JUST NOT POSSIBLE.. What are you smokin..
Must be a miscalculation on your part..
Rx-1s get slightly better gas milage than the apex.. at around 16mph.(a few times hitting 18).. where the apex averages 14mpg. (peaking at 16mpg).
NO WAY NO HOW you are ever going to get 27mpg out of either or any two stroke SDI either..
Must be a miscalculation on your part..
Rx-1s get slightly better gas milage than the apex.. at around 16mph.(a few times hitting 18).. where the apex averages 14mpg. (peaking at 16mpg).
NO WAY NO HOW you are ever going to get 27mpg out of either or any two stroke SDI either..
sandy8657
Pro
just repeating what I read here. Some guy with an Apex said he got 273 miles out of a tank of gas. I still believe the 4 strokes get better gas mileage than the 2 strokes.
Apex1
Newbie
That guy must have got towed for the last 150 miles.
Come on guys, its possible.. He was trailering it.. He got 12 mpg on truck and 15 on apex = 27 mpg. New Math. it works.
journeyman
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byoffcr said:
LOL!!! 8)
az99
Pro
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If I get 100,000 miles on my Yamaha 4 stroke engine, that would be 150 sets of hyfax and 200 idler wheels from now.
The guy that got 27mpg must have been too drunk to remember he filled it once in between calculations.
The guy that got 27mpg must have been too drunk to remember he filled it once in between calculations.
When I bought my Vector this year the motor performance was my biggest concern. Turns out the motor is what I love best about the sled.
I don't doubt that 4-strokes are the future. I don't have to deal with jetting, clutching, smoke or injector oil. I like riding and not futzing with things and I'm familier with working on my sleds as my past sled is a race 440 Ski-doo. I believe that with SDI they will be able to keep the 2 strokes emissions legal, however the market won't care once 4 strokes become more mainstream. I've already watched the evolution from 2-4 with dirt bikes. Snowmachines won't be any different.
I don't doubt that 4-strokes are the future. I don't have to deal with jetting, clutching, smoke or injector oil. I like riding and not futzing with things and I'm familier with working on my sleds as my past sled is a race 440 Ski-doo. I believe that with SDI they will be able to keep the 2 strokes emissions legal, however the market won't care once 4 strokes become more mainstream. I've already watched the evolution from 2-4 with dirt bikes. Snowmachines won't be any different.
yamajammer76
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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The only reason that the other 3 manufactures are fighting the 4 stroke trend is because of money and profit. There is no other reason. Engineering a good 4 stroke take a huge amount of money. Also, a 4 stroke engine is more expensive so the company makes less profit per sled. Those are the main reasons they are hesitant to change not because a 2 stroke is truely better.
y_guy
Expert
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2005
- Messages
- 220
yamajammer76 said:
I couldn't agree more. they will milk the 2stroke for as long as they can. 2 strokes are much cheaper to make yet they are charging about the same price. (especially twins!!!). Twins are cheaper to mfg then triples.
JERSEYJOE
Expert
Two strokes
I am still a fan of the two stroke but since buying an APEX GT I am slowly trusting the new technology. I still ride my 2001 SRX with 6000+ miles quite a bit. And as Sandy 8657 stated it still runs like the day it was built. I also have a 2003 Viper with nearly 7000 miles and it also runs fine without ever being apart. Blame the EPA for the end of the 2 stroke era. Some manufacturers like Ski Doo have dedicated their efforts to cleaning up the 2 stroke emmisions. My hat is off to them, but I feel in the end the 4 stroke technology will prevail. As much as I love my SRX, and it is one of the best 2 stroke sleds on fuel that I have ever seen bar none, the APEX GT is a better touring sled all around. Not that I will be selling any of my 2 stroke sled soon.
I am still a fan of the two stroke but since buying an APEX GT I am slowly trusting the new technology. I still ride my 2001 SRX with 6000+ miles quite a bit. And as Sandy 8657 stated it still runs like the day it was built. I also have a 2003 Viper with nearly 7000 miles and it also runs fine without ever being apart. Blame the EPA for the end of the 2 stroke era. Some manufacturers like Ski Doo have dedicated their efforts to cleaning up the 2 stroke emmisions. My hat is off to them, but I feel in the end the 4 stroke technology will prevail. As much as I love my SRX, and it is one of the best 2 stroke sleds on fuel that I have ever seen bar none, the APEX GT is a better touring sled all around. Not that I will be selling any of my 2 stroke sled soon.
redrx1rkt
Expert
Hey Joe...looking forward to your Quebec trip? Still wish I could go!
Anyway, I have always been a 4-stroke fan. Clean, smooth, quiet and efficient. That's the main reason I went for the RX-1 in 2003. My RTX and the other Apexs are just great, so much better than the RX-1s.
I get into the 2-stroke-4-stroke argument with a guy I ride with time to time. He insists two strokes are better because of the weight and low end power. I argue 4-strokes are better for reliability, efficiency (though his SDI gets the same mileage), durability, smoothness, quietness and top end pull. He's a pretty stubborn guy so my arguments don't hold much water. 4-strokes simply offer more of what I appreciate in engines. 2-strokes offer more of what he appreciates. Or so he will admit.
By the way, my RTX gets between 16-18, about the same as my RX-1. Now that it has 600 + miles on it, perhaps it will tickle the 20 mpg mark.
Anyway, I have always been a 4-stroke fan. Clean, smooth, quiet and efficient. That's the main reason I went for the RX-1 in 2003. My RTX and the other Apexs are just great, so much better than the RX-1s.
I get into the 2-stroke-4-stroke argument with a guy I ride with time to time. He insists two strokes are better because of the weight and low end power. I argue 4-strokes are better for reliability, efficiency (though his SDI gets the same mileage), durability, smoothness, quietness and top end pull. He's a pretty stubborn guy so my arguments don't hold much water. 4-strokes simply offer more of what I appreciate in engines. 2-strokes offer more of what he appreciates. Or so he will admit.
By the way, my RTX gets between 16-18, about the same as my RX-1. Now that it has 600 + miles on it, perhaps it will tickle the 20 mpg mark.
hahler2
Extreme
I would really like to get into a 4 stroke. But the weight concerns me. I've rode an Attak a little bit and I really didn't feel the weight when I was riding it. But I didn't do anything aggressive either. I like to hit the ditches really hard, and I think that a Attak or RTX like I'm looking at would really wear me out in a hurry. I love that motor though. Great power, great mileage and it sounds incredible.
