Jason Dutrisac
Newbie
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1
1. I have 2014 Apex (short track), been ridding it for 4 weeks now. I ride hard and fast, even then I can't keep up to my buddies with their ski-doo's when trail ridding due to the inside ski lift that I'm always experiencing. even on this site I can't seem to find a straight answer on that subject.
2. My limiter strap is at its shortest possible setting. my front shocks and rear shock is set to hardest setting. even then I find myself working like a dog to keep both ski's on the ground.
3. my control rod is set to factory "minimum", I'm not sure what that means or what effect it as. (the manual is not very helpful)
4. I find myself working like a dog to keep both ski's on the ground, I saw a suspension tuning chart floating around on this site but that's for the nytro. is there not some kind of a chart for apex ?!?!
2. My limiter strap is at its shortest possible setting. my front shocks and rear shock is set to hardest setting. even then I find myself working like a dog to keep both ski's on the ground.
3. my control rod is set to factory "minimum", I'm not sure what that means or what effect it as. (the manual is not very helpful)
4. I find myself working like a dog to keep both ski's on the ground, I saw a suspension tuning chart floating around on this site but that's for the nytro. is there not some kind of a chart for apex ?!?!
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
Install a 13mm swaybar from Pioneer Performance and soften up your ski shocks.
Riceburner
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2003
- Messages
- 1,760
- Location
- N.B. Canada eh
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- SideWinder LTX 50th
Front end as low as possible?
My SE rails. MY XTX, not so much.
My SE rails. MY XTX, not so much.
Bigblue1
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Ditto. The sled is high centered and tight. Add power steering and it's easy to get it twitchy in the corners. Settling the from end will loosen it which will make it push a little but you can compensate with more aggressive carbide and the eps. Then fine tune transfer rod and it will rail through corners with any doo. Mine does and I'm 6'3" 274.
ghost rider
Suspended
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 495
- Age
- 65
- Location
- Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- Rxwarrior
- LOCATION
- Muskoka , Ontario
Jason Dutrisac said:
Setting all your shocks to the max setting is wrong on all levels... That is your first problem.
Without any flex in the suspension the g force has no where to go except to raise the inside ski on a corner and limit bump absorption ...You need to balance lateral weight transfer with body roll... Start with the shocks as soft as possible and rise your compression until you can turn hard with the least amount of roll And ski lift.... Right now with every setting maxed out you literally have no suspension to speak of.... Less is more let your shocks do what they are designed to do... Travel...... And keeping up with the doos.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
Sounds like you are riding a brick with your settings. Let out the limiter to hole 1 that alone will help limiter maxed out pulled in you will be fighting constant ski lift. Turn tranfer to skis not on track. What carbides & skis are you running?....you should put everything back to stock settings & tune to carbides & skis of choice.
What shocks do you have? The SE and base are non adjustable in the front.
If you have the SE, set the floats around 60psi or lower until the A arms are level with the floor.
If the base model then turn down the preload on the springs to zero. Meaning turn the adjuster until the springs are loose and then tighten one full turn.
Make either adjustment with no weight on the front end.
Minimum transfer means that you won't "wheelie" when stabbing the throttle. This helps keep the skis planted while under power.
Real nice when driving aggressively in the twisties.
Let out the limiter strap to about one hole left ( as mentioned already). This will also improve the ride in the trails.
A softer setting on the suspension allows the sled to settle in to the corners rather than a stiff setting on the suspesnion that makes the sled ride on top of the corner.
The most important is your body weight. You really have to throw yourself side to side and hang off the seat if you really want to get aggressive in the corners.
The 13mm bar will help the body roll but will also make the sled stiffer. Its a bit of a trade off .
What sled did you have before this Apex?
If you have the SE, set the floats around 60psi or lower until the A arms are level with the floor.
If the base model then turn down the preload on the springs to zero. Meaning turn the adjuster until the springs are loose and then tighten one full turn.
Make either adjustment with no weight on the front end.
Minimum transfer means that you won't "wheelie" when stabbing the throttle. This helps keep the skis planted while under power.
Real nice when driving aggressively in the twisties.
Let out the limiter strap to about one hole left ( as mentioned already). This will also improve the ride in the trails.
A softer setting on the suspension allows the sled to settle in to the corners rather than a stiff setting on the suspesnion that makes the sled ride on top of the corner.
The most important is your body weight. You really have to throw yourself side to side and hang off the seat if you really want to get aggressive in the corners.
The 13mm bar will help the body roll but will also make the sled stiffer. Its a bit of a trade off .
What sled did you have before this Apex?
nate007
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
- 2,770
- Location
- Iowa City, Iowa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 1. '06 Apex -twin screw
2. '04 Redline Revolt 800
3. '09 Nytro XTX - twin screw
Among all of the things everyone else mentioned, don't try to make a bunch of adjustments all at once.
Some of this will be redundant to what's been posted already, so I'm sorry, but the following is what I start with. Nearly everybody who's ridden my Apex says it's probably the best handling Apex they've been on, for what it's worth. I'm always tweaking it to get it a little better.
Some people like to start with all of the suspension adjustments in the middle of their ranges, but I've had some really good luck with setting everything as soft as possible and gradually increasing one part of the suspension at a time. You've got a few things working against you and I can see why you're frustrated. Sounds like you've got too much weight (transfer) on too stiff of a front end that's sitting too high.. I can imagine that with what you have your settings at that it probably rides like a donkey...
Try this, and if you want to set it up to rail on the twisties, this is right up my alley..
1: If you pulled your limiter strap all the way up, let it out so it's ONE hole shorter than stock. The limiter strap is there to help keep the front end from going into orbit when you launch, but it can also hurt you if it's too tight by putting too much pressure on the skis. It will effectively make the sled "bridge" between the rear of the skid and the skis. Your straps should be a little loose with you on the sled once it's set to ride height.
2: Set your transfer in the middle of the range, as well as the rear shock. Set the spring on the shock so it holds the sled where you want it after you bounce it up and down a couple times. It should be somewhat soft to start with. Eventually, you should get transfer set so the backs of the skis are barely touching the snow on a good launch, and no more than a couple inches. If you've got a buddy that can sit on the sled while you jack up the front of the sled somewhere in the range of what I just described, you'll see what the transfer settings are doing during a launch and it will make more sense, plus be easier to get a good starting point. Also, I'll assume you've got the mono skid? If so, grease it with a very good LOW temp grease. Lots of suspension woes can be traced to lack of grease/mainainence.
3: As mentioned before, drop the front end. I don't run mine quite so the arms are level, but I run mine so the sled is about 3/4-1" above level. This will help keep you from bottoming out and/or pounding the pistons/seals out of your shocks. As mentioned above, if you have floats, just remember to set the air pressure with the sled off the ground. (I can't see why they instruct you to do so, but Fox says to do it that way). Personally, I think 60 would be a little stiff and possibly keep the sled too high, but all you can do is try it. I would say 55 to start with, but I've got a different Fox shock than your sled does. Again, check your limiter strap after getting the front end down, as that will be affected! You may have to adjust it again, but one hole shorter than stock should be close with near level a-arms.
4: Make sure you have the toe adjustment set correctly on your sled. You want the tips of the skis about 1/2" wider from center to center than the backs of the skis. If your toe is off, it could do a little to make the sled less predictable when you throw it into a corner.
Remember, all your springs do is hold your sled off the ground. The ride quality is in the compression and rebound adjustments of the shocks, and the handling is in your ride height, transfer and sway bar, alignment and body positioning while riding.
If you're a corner to corner rider, the 13mm Pioneer front sway bar is a good upgrade, if the rest of your suspension is set right. Some say its too harsh of a ride, but I have it and really like it.
There's quite a few adjustments available to get it taylored to your liking, just dont go overboard with adjusting things. It won't be something you're going to go out and get it right in one afternoon, but more something you should get familiar with and over time learn what to change for what conditions. Just be patient, and you'll get it to where your buddies can't hang with you!
I have the best luck with starting with a soft, flat sled that will barely hold itself off the ground. Make a few careful test rides (no bonzai runs or jumping), and gradually add to your settings. To me it's easier making it firmer in certain areas when you get the feedback from short test rides than it trying to figure out which adjustment will bring it back from full dump truck mode.
Some of this will be redundant to what's been posted already, so I'm sorry, but the following is what I start with. Nearly everybody who's ridden my Apex says it's probably the best handling Apex they've been on, for what it's worth. I'm always tweaking it to get it a little better.
Some people like to start with all of the suspension adjustments in the middle of their ranges, but I've had some really good luck with setting everything as soft as possible and gradually increasing one part of the suspension at a time. You've got a few things working against you and I can see why you're frustrated. Sounds like you've got too much weight (transfer) on too stiff of a front end that's sitting too high.. I can imagine that with what you have your settings at that it probably rides like a donkey...
Try this, and if you want to set it up to rail on the twisties, this is right up my alley..
1: If you pulled your limiter strap all the way up, let it out so it's ONE hole shorter than stock. The limiter strap is there to help keep the front end from going into orbit when you launch, but it can also hurt you if it's too tight by putting too much pressure on the skis. It will effectively make the sled "bridge" between the rear of the skid and the skis. Your straps should be a little loose with you on the sled once it's set to ride height.
2: Set your transfer in the middle of the range, as well as the rear shock. Set the spring on the shock so it holds the sled where you want it after you bounce it up and down a couple times. It should be somewhat soft to start with. Eventually, you should get transfer set so the backs of the skis are barely touching the snow on a good launch, and no more than a couple inches. If you've got a buddy that can sit on the sled while you jack up the front of the sled somewhere in the range of what I just described, you'll see what the transfer settings are doing during a launch and it will make more sense, plus be easier to get a good starting point. Also, I'll assume you've got the mono skid? If so, grease it with a very good LOW temp grease. Lots of suspension woes can be traced to lack of grease/mainainence.
3: As mentioned before, drop the front end. I don't run mine quite so the arms are level, but I run mine so the sled is about 3/4-1" above level. This will help keep you from bottoming out and/or pounding the pistons/seals out of your shocks. As mentioned above, if you have floats, just remember to set the air pressure with the sled off the ground. (I can't see why they instruct you to do so, but Fox says to do it that way). Personally, I think 60 would be a little stiff and possibly keep the sled too high, but all you can do is try it. I would say 55 to start with, but I've got a different Fox shock than your sled does. Again, check your limiter strap after getting the front end down, as that will be affected! You may have to adjust it again, but one hole shorter than stock should be close with near level a-arms.
4: Make sure you have the toe adjustment set correctly on your sled. You want the tips of the skis about 1/2" wider from center to center than the backs of the skis. If your toe is off, it could do a little to make the sled less predictable when you throw it into a corner.
Remember, all your springs do is hold your sled off the ground. The ride quality is in the compression and rebound adjustments of the shocks, and the handling is in your ride height, transfer and sway bar, alignment and body positioning while riding.
If you're a corner to corner rider, the 13mm Pioneer front sway bar is a good upgrade, if the rest of your suspension is set right. Some say its too harsh of a ride, but I have it and really like it.
There's quite a few adjustments available to get it taylored to your liking, just dont go overboard with adjusting things. It won't be something you're going to go out and get it right in one afternoon, but more something you should get familiar with and over time learn what to change for what conditions. Just be patient, and you'll get it to where your buddies can't hang with you!
I have the best luck with starting with a soft, flat sled that will barely hold itself off the ground. Make a few careful test rides (no bonzai runs or jumping), and gradually add to your settings. To me it's easier making it firmer in certain areas when you get the feedback from short test rides than it trying to figure out which adjustment will bring it back from full dump truck mode.
ratman
Extreme
The replies above are all correct...
The only thing not mentioned is the skis
If you are running single carbides, the sled will be darting, which also causes lift
Get 8 inch multiple carbides on it. Woodies duallies, or snowtrakers
The only thing not mentioned is the skis
If you are running single carbides, the sled will be darting, which also causes lift
Get 8 inch multiple carbides on it. Woodies duallies, or snowtrakers
Teamblue4
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,288
- Location
- Il.
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2012 Apex XTX
2013 Apex SE
2014 Apex SE
2014 Apex XTX
2018 Apex XTX 50TH Anniversary
You have to stay on the throttle in corners.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
ratman said:
Not sure what 2014 model Apex but I think he has tuners skis which is another can of worms to sort out? No idea what combo carbides he is running?? YIKES no wonder the poor guy is confused if 1st Apex.
you would think your doo buddies would take the time to help you get it setup. 
Since you've ridden sleds before then you know that all sleds are basically the same no matter what the brand. Im sure you had to do some adjusting on your last sled or is this your first sled? (some people do not touch it after getting it from there dealer, they think the dealer setup is the only setup they should use) they all have rear shocks, front shocks, (some with coils others without), limiter strap(s)and transfer adjustments. You now have lots of good info above that should get you railing and riding a lot faster.
good luck and let us know how you make out.
Since you've ridden sleds before then you know that all sleds are basically the same no matter what the brand. Im sure you had to do some adjusting on your last sled or is this your first sled? (some people do not touch it after getting it from there dealer, they think the dealer setup is the only setup they should use) they all have rear shocks, front shocks, (some with coils others without), limiter strap(s)and transfer adjustments. You now have lots of good info above that should get you railing and riding a lot faster.good luck and let us know how you make out.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
get the 13mm sway bar.. 6 inch.carbides.. put suspension setting back to stock and start there..
yamaha skis suck.. thats half the problem
pilot skis work well on them.
yamaha skis suck.. thats half the problem
pilot skis work well on them.
He's got the tuners on the 2014, ive got a set and they work great. His problem is not the skies but suspension setup
Good info...
