Amsnow RX1 dyno-another myth debunked

[RX1 Yooper]

How about that? All the experts said an RX1 gains HP after break-in, and the dyno says it doesn't.

 

[welterracer]

Thats funny because in snow tech they tested it and it gained 8HP!!

Dont always beilive what you read!!

 

[neonphil]

I would like to know the details of the break-in procedure that was performed. I think that might have something to do with the results they got.

 

[vmaxjohn]

The only issue I pick up is the shootout from Amsnow. I've got plenty of toilet paper, so I save my money on the rest. I won't bother getting this year's copy though, total crap.

RX1's to gain power with some miles, just like any motor. 4strokes take twice as long to break in for obvious reasons. Break in procedures mean everything for the first 1000 miles, especially if you want it to run well. A sled broken easy will run ok, broken in by me and it'll run great, hehe.

 

[RX1 Yooper]

John,
It makes sense that a new engine might gain a little, but this added HP claim is new to the RX1. When did people use this excuse for the Viper, SRX, or any other sled? The F7's are kicking #*$&@ with-out a break-in.
Do the automobile racers put 4000 miles on there cars before they race them?

 

[Buster696]

Guys...
Don't read into the dyno results from the amshootout tooooo much...
Yamaha had a much bigger issue at the dyno than putting miles on it by cycling it on the dyno...

:shock: Wait...

:shock: :shock: Get that bottle of water...

:shock: :shock: :shock: Shoot... you better get the extinguisher...

:x :x :x
--Buster696--

 

[Ted Jannetty]

I am a drag racer engine builder, I build my engines install them in the car and go racing BUT Our engines are clearanced differently than any production engines.
Production engines are clearanced very tight and the final Machining if you will, happens during break in.

Therefore Break in is very important, and ALL should follow manufacturers guide lines on break in.

Lets face it, None of us Know as much as the design team that developed this engine.

So I have to go with what they say.

And I would expect that if I build an engine for someone they will follow what I say.

 

[Mighty]

John,
It makes sense that a new engine might gain a little, but this added HP claim is new to the RX1. When did people use this excuse for the Viper, SRX, or any other sled? The F7's are kicking butt with-out a break-in.
Do the automobile racers put 4000 miles on there cars before they race them?

You can't compare a 2-stroke to a 4-stroke on break in. Tolerences are so much tighter on a 4-stroke (especially a quality engine like the Genesis) that it takes time to loosen.

 

[LazyBastard]

The majority of a 2-stroke's breakin is in the first 300 feet. For RX1, i've seen dyno numbers showing a 25hp increase from fresh to 1000 miles. The improvement is fast at the start, but tapers off with mileage.

 

[Mighty]

The majority of a 2-stroke's breakin is in the first 300 feet.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[race24x]

I can tell you from Motorcycle engine break in that there is a small increase in HP on most 4 stroke M/C engines. I can also tell you that 2 exact bikes wont be the same exact power. All tolerances are plus or minus a certain amount. If you get an engine with the least amount of allowable cam timing and I get one with the most amount within there specs obviously one will have more top end power while the other has more midrange pull. We used to have our cams degreed to put them where we wanted the power the most becuase the factory had so much tolerance that they allowed. Now imagine that with every part in the engine. Some stock ones go better than others. A 4 stroke engine is tight from the factory or atleast it is supposed to be. So it is no myth that they will gain a small amount of power some more than others after break in. Now as far as Dynos anyone that runs one (atleast in motorcycles) will tell you that they can make the corrected HP numbers as much as you want. Its a tuning tool. You have to plug in temp humididty etc air is more dense on a cold day than a warm day there are some differences there and so on. Your best bet is to go to someone you know and trust try to get all you work done in 1 day if you can but higher HP doesnt always mean you will win better power curve in the RPMs you run in can get you ahead of the other guy while his peak HP may be more he is only in his peak for a second or so.

 

[LazyBastard]

That is the difference between bikes and sleds. With the bike transmission, you depend on a wider powerband because the engine speed is always changing. With a sled, the clutch holds the engine's speed at the spot where it makes the best power.

 

[race24x]

I see your point with the clutching it runs in a very narrow powerband so for drag purposes it would be ideal but you still need to wait for the backshift and all at midrange all in all I still thik of it as a tuning tool and not something to brag about how many HP you made more than your buddy. You might just find the guy running the Dyno didnt change the temp from the day before and he is running it in the morning 20 degrees colder than before. The numbers would be all messed up

 

[SUPERTUNER]

Now as far as Dynos anyone that runs one (atleast in motorcycles) will tell you that they can make the corrected HP numbers as much as you want.

I would love to meet the first person who stated this and punch him/her right in the mouth!

Dynamometers do not know how to be fooled or lie. They merely report the findings based off of the input received from the operator. THIS IS NOT FOOLING THE DYNO...IT IS ONLY FOOLING THE CUSTOMER!!!

Blaming a piece of equipment is foolish. Our dynamometer for example has a built in weather station. It tells ME the correction factor...not the other way around. My dynamometer has made me a better engine builder and tuner as a result. The biggest variable in any machining or test equipment program is the human being(s) involved in the project. I know how much HP engines have for real at the weather parameters the day that engine was dynoed. As I write this, I am looking at 3 different dynoruns in graphical format. Although they vary slightly...and very slightly at that, they all make approximately 80 foot pounds of torque at torque peak and 135-136 HP at peak in corrected conditions. At 10,200 RPM's all three made the following numbers:
135.0 HP 73.0 degree's 1.02 correction factor
135.0 HP 57.6 degree's 1.00 correction factor (barometer was better)
132.1 HP 62.9 degree's 1.00 correction factor (barometer better again)

I have to laugh when I see dynosheets come into my shop with 1.40 correction factors. You would need to be about 10,000 feet in the air and sitting at the bottom of a lake to get this high of a correction factor. People produce these correction factor numbers...not the dynamometer.

Dynamometers are tools as stated before...the numbers don't mean squat. The only important things to remember as a dyno operator is to continue the tests on said engine with the same parameters. A gain in power regardless of numbers means you will go faster. Less power means you will go slower.

 

[race24x]

I wasnt blaming the equipment at all. I was merely stating that a not so honest technician can make the customer believe he or she has a much faster or more powerful sled than they really have. We had a problem with a shop up here doing just that. Guys where coming out on there 750 Ninjas and Gixxers claiming 120 Hp I thought it was kind of funny considering my 1100 Gixxer had about 129 and my 750 had 100. My 750 would beat them in a drag race a roll on and they couoldnt figure out why if they had more HP I could beat them. There are alot of older dynos that rely on input from the guy running it rather than its own built in weather station that can easily be (whether on purpose or an honest mistake) changed to misread corrected HP. Like you said its a tool that can tune your engine but when I read about one guy saying a sled has 110 HP on the dyno and another guy saying he has seen dyno sheets of 72 HP it makes you wonder who is running that dyno and where.