Anyone tried the Hygear dual rate springs on the 06 apex?

[Firecat_Freak]

I just got the dual rate progressive rate spring set up from Hygear yesterday. Put them on per included instructions, and I'm finding that the main spring rubs on the rear support of the upper a-arm pretty bad. I've tried rotating the spring, and even flipping it end for end. Still rubs. This is on the left side of the sled. The right side, there is about 1/16"-1/8" of clearance. I swapped set-ups from left to right the problem stayed on the left side. I'm not noticing any issues with bent arms or anything of the sort. Just think it's 1/8" worth of difference in the welded up a-arms. Not sure what to do other than sending these back.

The original springs only have a little over 1/8"-1/4" of clearance to start, so not sure how Hygear thought these springs would work if they are bigger in diameter. I'll have to give them a call on Monday.

 

[Murse]

I just got the same work done and will e installing soon I will let you know if I have the same problem. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[lawndoctor]

You may want to verify that your lower a arms are installed correctly. I've seen them installed upside down and therefore the shock rubs on the upper a arm.

 

[yamahas]

If the problem stayed on that side I would lean towards something is bent and its not a problem with the spring.

 

[steiner]

Have you inspected the bulkhead for cracks or broken tabs?

 

[Firecat_Freak]

I did not notice any damage to the bulkhead when the front was tore apart for the oil change before summer lay up. Everything looked fine. I have no cracks in any welds on the a-arms. Yes, the issue stayed on one side, but like I stated in the post, the side that doesn't rub, clears by less than a 1/8".

As far as the bottom a-rms being installed incorrectly???

I had taken a look at the bottom shock mounts. I was originally thinking about trying to shim them. However, in order for there to be ample clearance between the spring and the arm, the shock would need to move at least 1/4", and i don't plan on grinding that off the shock mounts.

Here is a picture.

Can you tell from the picture if the lowwer a-arm is installed correctly? I haven't had it off, but the previous owner may have.

 

[steiner]

Hard to see anything in that lil' pic

Did you remove the plastics in the front and check the A-arm sockets?
You can see pics of damage and a repair kit here
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=114419

 

[ranger1]

Normally if your shock & or spring is closer to the rear of the a-arm than the other side, the a-arm is probably bent. My carbide bit into a rock last year & bent my a-arms back about a half an inch. I straightened them but it wasn't easy as they are tempered! Since then I have been checking friends sleds & a lot of them have one side that the shock is closer to the a-arm.....bent a-arms as well!
I noticed you have the spring on the bottom, can the whole shock assembly be flipped 180 degrees?

 

[Firecat_Freak]

Normally if your shock & or spring is closer to the rear of the a-arm than the other side, the a-arm is probably bent. My carbide bit into a rock last year & bent my a-arms back about a half an inch. I straightened them but it wasn't easy as they are tempered! Since then I have been checking friends sleds & a lot of them have one side that the shock is closer to the a-arm.....bent a-arms as well!
I noticed you have the spring on the bottom, can the whole shock assembly be flipped 180 degrees?

I would agree with this, however I would think the spring would be closer to the front of the arm, instead of the rear like mine if the ski took some sort of front end impact pushing the arms back. But who knows.

I'll have to take those plastics off and check the "tabs". Didn't know what that meant, but now i see it is referring to the a-arm bolt holes in the bulkhead. When I changed the oil I didn't see any problems, but I didn't pull all the front plastics off either. That front end saver kit looks like a good idea to me, even if there is no damage.

I'll probably just send these springs back regardless. I have two other sleds that need attention before the snow flies, and will have to come back to the front end saver kit later.

 

[Irv]

Normally if your shock & or spring is closer to the rear of the a-arm than the other side, the a-arm is probably bent. My carbide bit into a rock last year & bent my a-arms back about a half an inch. I straightened them but it wasn't easy as they are tempered! Since then I have been checking friends sleds & a lot of them have one side that the shock is closer to the a-arm.....bent a-arms as well!
I noticed you have the spring on the bottom, can the whole shock assembly be flipped 180 degrees?

I would agree with this, however I would think the spring would be closer to the front of the arm, instead of the rear like mine if the ski took some sort of front end impact pushing the arms back. But who knows.
I'll have to take those plastics off and check the "tabs". Didn't know what that meant, but now i see it is referring to the a-arm bolt holes in the bulkhead. When I changed the oil I didn't see any problems, but I didn't pull all the front plastics off either. That front end saver kit looks like a good idea to me, even if there is no damage.

I'll probably just send these springs back regardless. I have two other sleds that need attention before the snow flies, and will have to come back to the front end saver kit later.

When I purchased my Vector used, it wasn't until I started replacing the front end bushings that I noticed my shock spring was rubbing at the back on the A-arm.

Long story short, when I disassembled everything, it was clear to see that my A-arms had been bent back due to an impact of sorts, and was verified when I tried to remove the crooked spindle bolt

I am glad I caught it as it had worn a gouge at least a 1/8th-1/4 way through.

Also noticed the tie rod on that side had been adjusted to max, something I wish I had of noticed when I was looking the sled over prior to buying it.

 

[Firecat_Freak]

I just find it odd, that the stock springs are fine, they don't rub, but still have minimal clearance. Then the Hygear springs are bigger round, and expect those to clear. I guess i'd like to see how much clearance there is on a new machine.

How much has to come apart to check the bulkhead? I should at least do that for safety reasons......

 

[Firecat_Freak]

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with Hygear. It turns out that these are a different main spring than they ran in previous kits. Sounds like the outside diameter is bigger, and may be an issue. I'll be sending them some pictures tonight to show them how close these springs are on both sides.

I may abandon the project for this year, and get a set of floats with reservoirs for next season and go back to the stock springs for this season. Not sure yet.

 

[Firecat_Freak]

This has been bugging me. I went out to the shop and took another look, I do have about 1/4" of clearance with the hygear spring on the good side. I was studying the a-arms a bit, and I believe that the bottom a-arm may be bent back. Since that is the arm that the shock attaches to on the bottom, it could be positioning the whole shock further back than it should. I'm going to get the straight edge out tonight and take off some plastics to inspect further. It looks like an a-arm may be in my future. Arg...

 

[Irv]

This has been bugging me. I went out to the shop and took another look, I do have about 1/4" of clearance with the hygear spring on the good side. I was studying the a-arms a bit, and I believe that the bottom a-arm may be bent back. Since that is the arm that the shock attaches to on the bottom, it could be positioning the whole shock further back than it should. I'm going to get the straight edge out tonight and take off some plastics to inspect further. It looks like an a-arm may be in my future. Arg...

I'd bet that's the issue.

This is what I found on dis-assembly, the left side was perfectly fine.

 

[Firecat_Freak]

I remember when I cracked the powder axles on my firecat back in the day, turned our arms were bent too. I didn't find any cracked axles on the apex, but didn't get a chance to examine closely.

I've decided to go a different direction with the front shocks, so I'll be sending these springs back. I will for sure dig into the arms and ponder the front bulkhead saver kit as well.

When you found the arm bent, was it both top and bottom? I saw the bottom arm is $180 and the top $225? Not sure why top is so much more? Ouch!!!