spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
I'd look at the bright side and figure you don't have to spend the money on a new one. I had the Phazer, i had no choice! It was never ending nightmare! I did love the motor though. Bought an XP and it is the most incredible sled i have ever owned period! I let 2 others ride it and one said "speachless" and the other said "incredible". No one will believe that, but i don't care, i pay for it, and i ride it.
I have a 2008 Raptor 700 and a 2008 WR250r that are also incredible! I love them! As far as the Phazer, i just hit a bad one/year.
I have a 2008 Raptor 700 and a 2008 WR250r that are also incredible! I love them! As far as the Phazer, i just hit a bad one/year.
apexrtxmaniac
Pro
I wish Yam would have done a bit more. The graphics aren't even that Bold and New.
However, I think the greater problem here is that the snowmobile industry has started to plateau in technology. Look in the far past; sleds had no suspension, were air cooled, had no power, had narrow ski stances, had lug-less tracks, steel skis, pull start, no hand warmers, etc. Manufacturers came up with something like: liquid cooling, larger engines, long travel suspension (in stages 4", then 6", 8", 10"+), strut suspension, trailing arms, double wishbone suspension, piggy back shocks, air shocks, deep lugged tracks, electric start, hand warmers, rider forward, less rider-forward, efi, four stroke engines, plastic skis, etc. Every time one of these things were added to a sled everyone had to run out and get the latest technology. Look at how advanced sleds are now. Without re-inventing the wheel there isn't much for manufacturers like Yam to do. As long as the customer doesn't want to pay astronomical amounts for sleds; you aren't going to get a new wheel in a small industry like snowmobiling.
The other factor is that sleds used to ware out when they were all 2strokes. They would get to a point at which you could not fix it without putting more money into them than it was worth.
Very little game changing technology is entering the industry. Yamaha isn't going to lighten up their sleds. They don't want things to break; they are paying for warranty and they have built their reputation around reliability. Combine this with the fact that their sleds aren't blowing engines and there is little reason for people to buy new sleds. Because less people are going to buy sleds, they aren't going to waste the money on making new chasis for the heck of it. We should be happy with what we have. They could have made a few nice changes like new skis and a different track but at least we can all feel better about putting money into personalizing our sleds.
If you are really getting sick of your six year old apex; for less money than buying a new sled (yamaha or other) you could put a turbo on it. A turboed 06 apex with an aftermarket suspension and skis would be far better than anything from any of the other three manufacturers.
However, I think the greater problem here is that the snowmobile industry has started to plateau in technology. Look in the far past; sleds had no suspension, were air cooled, had no power, had narrow ski stances, had lug-less tracks, steel skis, pull start, no hand warmers, etc. Manufacturers came up with something like: liquid cooling, larger engines, long travel suspension (in stages 4", then 6", 8", 10"+), strut suspension, trailing arms, double wishbone suspension, piggy back shocks, air shocks, deep lugged tracks, electric start, hand warmers, rider forward, less rider-forward, efi, four stroke engines, plastic skis, etc. Every time one of these things were added to a sled everyone had to run out and get the latest technology. Look at how advanced sleds are now. Without re-inventing the wheel there isn't much for manufacturers like Yam to do. As long as the customer doesn't want to pay astronomical amounts for sleds; you aren't going to get a new wheel in a small industry like snowmobiling.
The other factor is that sleds used to ware out when they were all 2strokes. They would get to a point at which you could not fix it without putting more money into them than it was worth.
Very little game changing technology is entering the industry. Yamaha isn't going to lighten up their sleds. They don't want things to break; they are paying for warranty and they have built their reputation around reliability. Combine this with the fact that their sleds aren't blowing engines and there is little reason for people to buy new sleds. Because less people are going to buy sleds, they aren't going to waste the money on making new chasis for the heck of it. We should be happy with what we have. They could have made a few nice changes like new skis and a different track but at least we can all feel better about putting money into personalizing our sleds.
If you are really getting sick of your six year old apex; for less money than buying a new sled (yamaha or other) you could put a turbo on it. A turboed 06 apex with an aftermarket suspension and skis would be far better than anything from any of the other three manufacturers.
bottlerocket said:
1200 doo 499 dry weight....apex mono and z1 turbo sno pro is 575 dry
owning over a dozen yams since 93...here's my take...the sales volumes arent there anymore to justify the new every three years like before...the engineering is being stretched...and to a lesser degree they are all doing that...
the subtle changes or improvements would be fine if they continuously move in a positive direction and keep pace...
when the rx1 came out...it was a game changer....the same problems albeit somewhat smaller chip away at the solid yamaha engineering claim...
I used to fight to defend my yamaha's "yeah but, they never leave you stranded" "they may not ride as good or go as well but you can get them there...just takes some tweaking"
truth be said...the cats and doo fourstrokes have leapfrogged yam at what they started...and without the "yeah buts"
theres no way you cant tell me they couldnt have taken the nytro motor...punched it out to 1200 ish....popped it lower in the apex chassis....added the power steering....saved on the exup...and had a hot 165 h.p. apex to regain the fourstroke lead...all with the same chassis...no big retooling other than the motor...
as far as im concerned they are in "bear" mode!
the subtle changes or improvements would be fine if they continuously move in a positive direction and keep pace...
when the rx1 came out...it was a game changer....the same problems albeit somewhat smaller chip away at the solid yamaha engineering claim...
I used to fight to defend my yamaha's "yeah but, they never leave you stranded" "they may not ride as good or go as well but you can get them there...just takes some tweaking"
truth be said...the cats and doo fourstrokes have leapfrogged yam at what they started...and without the "yeah buts"
theres no way you cant tell me they couldnt have taken the nytro motor...punched it out to 1200 ish....popped it lower in the apex chassis....added the power steering....saved on the exup...and had a hot 165 h.p. apex to regain the fourstroke lead...all with the same chassis...no big retooling other than the motor...
as far as im concerned they are in "bear" mode!
WOW, I posted a message in regards to the disappointment I had in the introduction of the 2012 sleds and the lack of new product to meet product demands. I was told I was bashing and they removed my Message. My point was not to bash but because of the loyalty to the brand I have just been frustrated with the lack of new product. It just seems like Yamaha is lacking that aggressive approach and are to content to just sit back. I didnt think I was really being harder then anyone else in expressing that frustration. (maybe I was to much to the point)It doesnt matter if its a sled, quad or rhino, I really do want to stick with Yamaha but I am running out of options. Example would be if I wanted to update my 2007 700 EPS Grizzly what I am to update too? I would really like more power. If I wanted better power to weight ration in a sled over a Nytro and better handling, bigger fuel tank, what are my options? I look at the competition and they have some attractive options.
Anyways I thought I was not being unreasonable, was just trying to express the frustration.
Anyways I thought I was not being unreasonable, was just trying to express the frustration.
TRUE BLUE SINCE 1980
Expert
Maybe Yamaha is missing the pint that , we have progressed to a point that we now owne more than one sled , I read all the time about guys having more than one sled that they ride. I have 5,.....3 that i would ride anytime. Lately, I buy leftover. with the linup the way it has been, there is no way to rotate the stock.
79 et runs like a clock, will be retired this year (not sold)
600 xt took rings, 1 piston , and track 2 years ago
06 apex gt
01 sxr (great sled)
10 vector ltx gt
....3 kids + their friends, on the snow
79 et runs like a clock, will be retired this year (not sold)
600 xt took rings, 1 piston , and track 2 years ago
06 apex gt
01 sxr (great sled)
10 vector ltx gt
....3 kids + their friends, on the snow
dilligaf
Pro
I don't know what most of you guys do for a living, but I suspect most of you don't work in design/engineering. Its not cheap to make these 'simple' mechanical changes. Some things I'll admit is strange why Yamaha hasn't addressed them. I'm suprised that a sled can ge even made for a profit at MSRP prices. And the grass isn't greener on the other side. If I was going to buy new, I'd wait until the 2013 model year.
dirkdiggler
Suspended
dilligaf said:
You are correct it's not cheap. However when you've been building the same sled for close to 10 years you'd think they would have made there money back by now. Instead of putting money into the apex why not replace it. Now they have to make the money they put into this new apex back.
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
dilligaf said:
Why? It'll be the same line up next year.
yamadog1
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
sled
i have been retired for 17 yrs and i will be 64 soon, also been sledding for
40yrs and through the years i have gotten upset about new models, but
as you get older you have a choice to be happy with your last few yrs or
be miserable. i choose to be happy, and i refuse to let small things ruin my
day. i wanted something different then my 07 attak but i will be just fine.
so don't let the small things get in your way of happiness.
i have been retired for 17 yrs and i will be 64 soon, also been sledding for
40yrs and through the years i have gotten upset about new models, but
as you get older you have a choice to be happy with your last few yrs or
be miserable. i choose to be happy, and i refuse to let small things ruin my
day. i wanted something different then my 07 attak but i will be just fine.
so don't let the small things get in your way of happiness.
yamahabandit
Expert
Re: sled
X2yamadog1 said:
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
Funny about all the "money involved" and "engineers" and such, the average joe on here is fixing Yamahas issues, making it a better sled, with his own money!!!
Tell me again why Yamaha "just can't do that so easy."
Maybe they should hire Cannondale and some of the guys from here, they can get them to work! I'd rather give them my money too.
It can be done, take off the blue goggles, other companys are doing it.
Tell me again why Yamaha "just can't do that so easy."
Maybe they should hire Cannondale and some of the guys from here, they can get them to work! I'd rather give them my money too.
It can be done, take off the blue goggles, other companys are doing it.
dirkdiggler
Suspended
The other thing the other oems have over Yamaha is ride quality and handling. I had to put a Expert X rear skid, Different shocks, sway bar and sway bar link in my 2003 RX-1. I had to do all the to make it take the bumps and corner right.
After seeing just a couple pics of the new cats I'm more excited then I've been about sleds since the apex hit the snow in 2006. look at it this way Each OEM has had at least one new chassis since the apex was released in 2006. 6 years later you have the same sled with power steering and EXUP exhaust. talk about a joke!!!
After seeing just a couple pics of the new cats I'm more excited then I've been about sleds since the apex hit the snow in 2006. look at it this way Each OEM has had at least one new chassis since the apex was released in 2006. 6 years later you have the same sled with power steering and EXUP exhaust. talk about a joke!!!
Lets face it, based upon the posts on this forum, the over whelming consensus is that there is allot of frustrated and disappointed Yamaha owners over the introduction of the 2012 sleds. No, Im not mad or angry or bashing, its just rather clear that Yamaha is not getting it and I am disappointed and sad and its causing me to lose that Yamaha passion.
With a name like totallyamahanotsomuch there is already no passion....
