bull
Extreme
What do you think I should put on my Apex RTX to eliminate darting.
Thanks
Frank
Thanks
Frank
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
If your only concern is darting, then perhaps you should do a search on:
shimming & skis
OR go here:
www.bergstromskegs.com/oui/useful.htm
I have never had a problem with the OEM skis darting after they have been shimmed. However, I am running Simmon's now with no issues except pushing in corners.
shimming & skis
OR go here:
www.bergstromskegs.com/oui/useful.htm
I have never had a problem with the OEM skis darting after they have been shimmed. However, I am running Simmon's now with no issues except pushing in corners.
bull
Extreme
I found an old post I made my mind I bought Simmons ski
Thanks
Bull
Thanks
Bull
I have c&a razors on my attack. For the money it is the best after market accesory you can by. The c&a made a great improvement in handling. So my pick would be c&a razors.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I have C&A Outlaws on mine (except I took them off until we get better conditions...probably next season).
On well packed groomed trails they are very similar to stock skis (stock ski shimmed and running Bergstrom 8" carbides and ski savers that is). The Outlaws have a definite edge on slightly looser trails and are even less likely to dart than the Bergstrom setup with the stock skis (which isn't bad at all IMO).
Where they really shine is in deeper snow, especially when ditch running. With stock skis its very easy to get pulled into the ditch and they just don't grip enough to steer up the steep slope to get out. The Outlaws are a huge improvement here and you can pretty much just turn the skis where you want and the sled follows.
As far as steering effort they seem very similar to the stock skis to me (I've switched back and forth several times - depending on snow conditions).
They're not cheap, but I think they are one of the best available because they do everything extremely well and because of the reduced steering effort on hard pack (due to the dual depth keel design).
I'm not positive (no first hand experience), but I believe many of the other aftermarket skis increase the steering effort quite a bit (including the Razors).
On well packed groomed trails they are very similar to stock skis (stock ski shimmed and running Bergstrom 8" carbides and ski savers that is). The Outlaws have a definite edge on slightly looser trails and are even less likely to dart than the Bergstrom setup with the stock skis (which isn't bad at all IMO).
Where they really shine is in deeper snow, especially when ditch running. With stock skis its very easy to get pulled into the ditch and they just don't grip enough to steer up the steep slope to get out. The Outlaws are a huge improvement here and you can pretty much just turn the skis where you want and the sled follows.
As far as steering effort they seem very similar to the stock skis to me (I've switched back and forth several times - depending on snow conditions).
They're not cheap, but I think they are one of the best available because they do everything extremely well and because of the reduced steering effort on hard pack (due to the dual depth keel design).
I'm not positive (no first hand experience), but I believe many of the other aftermarket skis increase the steering effort quite a bit (including the Razors).
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
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IMO pilots do everything better....while other aftermarket skis do only SOME things good,and others not so good...
-lightest steering feel(Simmons too heavy)
-reduced darting
-great high speed ski
-reduced Float(pushing,Simmons bad for this)
-Inexpensive compared to all others
add all this up and its a no brainer!
Simmons shines in one category IMO,that is powder snow,they plane better....Never was a fan of dual outer carbide,slower on ice and push too much.
Pilots I beleive are the BEST design in a ski to ever come out...they work well on apexs,as probably MOST TYers have found.
Dan
-lightest steering feel(Simmons too heavy)
-reduced darting
-great high speed ski
-reduced Float(pushing,Simmons bad for this)
-Inexpensive compared to all others
add all this up and its a no brainer!
Simmons shines in one category IMO,that is powder snow,they plane better....Never was a fan of dual outer carbide,slower on ice and push too much.
Pilots I beleive are the BEST design in a ski to ever come out...they work well on apexs,as probably MOST TYers have found.
Dan
yamaouch08
Expert
Simmons Skis are great in all conditions IMO
http://www.flexi-ski.com/home.html
http://www.flexi-ski.com/home.html
yamaouch08 said:
I agree
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I always find it interesting how much controversy ther is with skis for our Apex's...
I've talked to a lot of guys running the Simmons skis and while I've been told they are excellent they do apparently increase the steering effort quite a bit and they also tend to float up and understeer in very specific conditions (deeper wet snow). Other than that they perform extremely well and that includes the conditions most of us ride in all the time.
I've also talked to a lot of guys running Pilots and they do seem to be the best of everything with one exception - they tend to wear out fairly quickly. The newest Pilots are supposed to be better for wear, but they still apparently wear out faster than Simons or C&A's.
Another pair of skis that tend to get rave reviews are Slydog skis. I didn't go with them because I thought the keel looked a little shallow for deep snow use and also thought the full length primary keel would likely increase the steering effort on hard packed trails. The reviews don't say this though. Everything I've read has been 100% positive on them and I've never tried them (just looked at the design carefully and compared it to other skis that I have tried).
Basically what sold me on the Outlaws is the very short length for the primary keel. This means when conditions are hard packed and the keel doesn't sink in much, your riding on a very short keel and this gives you a nice light steering effort. As the snow softens, the keel sinks in more and more until the 2nd stage of the keel starts to work. Because the 1st plus 2nd stage of the keel is so deep (1.5") you get great cornering performance in deep snow (ditch banging, etc.). It also has a pair of smaller keels on the outer edge of the ski so in deeper snow this helps to lock the snow in and provides extra flotation (they are also wider than stock so the flotation is excellent).
I don't know which ski is the best, but the Outlaws seem to work well as a truely all snow condition performer. With them it seems the steering effort and performance is almost constant no matter what the snow conditions are.
For strictly well groomed trail use I suspect there are better options (Pilots, Slydogs or Simmons). Other than the light steering effort on very hard packed trails the Outlaws don't seem much different than stock skis combined with a Bergstom kit (I also always found this worked extremely well on groomed trails).
I've talked to a lot of guys running the Simmons skis and while I've been told they are excellent they do apparently increase the steering effort quite a bit and they also tend to float up and understeer in very specific conditions (deeper wet snow). Other than that they perform extremely well and that includes the conditions most of us ride in all the time.
I've also talked to a lot of guys running Pilots and they do seem to be the best of everything with one exception - they tend to wear out fairly quickly. The newest Pilots are supposed to be better for wear, but they still apparently wear out faster than Simons or C&A's.
Another pair of skis that tend to get rave reviews are Slydog skis. I didn't go with them because I thought the keel looked a little shallow for deep snow use and also thought the full length primary keel would likely increase the steering effort on hard packed trails. The reviews don't say this though. Everything I've read has been 100% positive on them and I've never tried them (just looked at the design carefully and compared it to other skis that I have tried).
Basically what sold me on the Outlaws is the very short length for the primary keel. This means when conditions are hard packed and the keel doesn't sink in much, your riding on a very short keel and this gives you a nice light steering effort. As the snow softens, the keel sinks in more and more until the 2nd stage of the keel starts to work. Because the 1st plus 2nd stage of the keel is so deep (1.5") you get great cornering performance in deep snow (ditch banging, etc.). It also has a pair of smaller keels on the outer edge of the ski so in deeper snow this helps to lock the snow in and provides extra flotation (they are also wider than stock so the flotation is excellent).
I don't know which ski is the best, but the Outlaws seem to work well as a truely all snow condition performer. With them it seems the steering effort and performance is almost constant no matter what the snow conditions are.
For strictly well groomed trail use I suspect there are better options (Pilots, Slydogs or Simmons). Other than the light steering effort on very hard packed trails the Outlaws don't seem much different than stock skis combined with a Bergstom kit (I also always found this worked extremely well on groomed trails).
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