Clutch Rattle

[FloridaBoy22]

Loctite 290 is what you are after. Or any brand of bearing mount.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Thats a thread sealant, not a bearing retaining compound^

The ones I listed offer both higher heat capability, as well as work in looser tolerances which is what this application would call for.

 

[ViperTurboPete]

What is the shop time on this job??? One hour, two??

 

[ViperTurboPete]

X2 Dexta. What is this stuff and how did you do it? I am assuming you removed the end cover and stub shaft assembly. Big job or not?

OTM[/quote]Here is the stuff
No big job,take of the primary clutch,take off the four screws that holds the spline,then loose the 2 screws that is under spline so it is loose.
Then you can take the spline out.
Clean inside the spline and the crank emd that goes inside the spline for any oil.
Then use the "stuff" inside the spline and on the crank end and mount it all in place.
Dont start the engine before its all dry,i did not start the engine until after 1 day just to be sure the stuff was dry
No sound whatever no
.

[/img][/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong.....previous posts say to split the crank case in order to get at the stub shaft. To me this post says you don't have to and that it is not a big job. What is correct?

 

[Dimebag]

Beenba,

Did you get a answer from kimoajaj regarding this?

 

[Tarzan]

X2 Dexta. What is this stuff and how did you do it? I am assuming you removed the end cover and stub shaft assembly. Big job or not?

OTM

Here is the stuff
No big job,take of the primary clutch,take off the four screws that holds the spline,then loose the 2 screws that is under spline so it is loose.
Then you can take the spline out.
Clean inside the spline and the crank emd that goes inside the spline for any oil.
Then use the "stuff" inside the spline and on the crank end and mount it all in place.
Dont start the engine before its all dry,i did not start the engine until after 1 day just to be sure the stuff was dry
No sound whatever no
.

[/img][/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong.....previous posts say to split the crank case in order to get at the stub shaft. To me this post says you don't have to and that it is not a big job. What is correct?[/quote]
No you dont have to split the crank case.
And its a 1 our job.

 

[ViperTurboPete]

Great!!! Thanks.

 

[09nytro]

If you can hear the noise you are going to slow....lol....

 

[Off Trail Mike]

Tarzan:

Thanks for the instructions, I don't see any issues to remove the primary and the 4 bolts on the cover, but where are the other two that release the spline? Are they inside the engine?

Also, if anyone is going to guinea pig this one ......pictures please. Tarzan's product might be a bit hard to source in North America so I'm going to find a cross reference to Loctite.

I'm keen to try this, but its about 4th in line right now.

OTM

 

[Off Trail Mike]

The info I found on the Wurth and Loctite Bearing Retainers is below:

I checked the play on my clutch and I have 0.6mm play @ 83mm radius (cover bolts), so if I assume the spline is 50mm in diameter or less, the free play on the spline is 0.18mm or less, which should work for the Loctite 620 product.

My only big question is can you disassemble the spline after assembly or is this permanent.

Here's the info I found.

OTM


Wurth Bearing Retainer DOS Heat Resistance 50g
Unit Price: Contact us for our latest price
Part number: 0893620050

Bearing Retainer DOS Heat Resistance 50gFor assembly of bushes and bearings exposed to high temperatures. Max. gap filling of 0.2 mm, Prevents frictional corrosion . Your advantage: Prevents seizing of bearings . Operating temperature range from � 55�C to + 200�C (+ 230�C for brief periods) . Your advantage: Strength at 100�C still 85% of maxi - mum strength. Quick curing, hand - tight after 40 minutes, usable after 1 to 3 hour.

Loctite® 609™ Retaining Compound
Loctite® 609™ is a low viscosity, rapid-curing anaerobic adhesive that augments the strength of press fit assemblies or slip fit assemblies up to 0.005" (0.127mm) in diameter. Adds up to 3,000 psi holding power.

50 ml bottle P/N 60931 $40.46ea. (Green)

TECHNICAL DATA SHEET

Loctite® 620™ Retaining Compound
Loctite® 620™ is a high temperature (450°F), high viscosity liquid retaining compound. Provides a shear strength of over 3,800 psi on steel. Locks and secures metal cylindrical assemblies up to 0.015" (0.381mm) diametral clearance. Prevents metal fretting and corrosion. Seals against leakage

50 ml bottle P/N 62040 $46.98/ea. (Green)

TECHNICAL DATA SHEET

Loctite® 640™ Retaining Compound
Loctite® Sleeve Retainer 640™ is a high temperature anaerobic adhesive that secures slip and press fit assemblies. Adds up to 3,000 psi holding power. Restores fit to worn or out-of-tolerance assemblies. Prevents surface corrosion. Works to 400°F.

50 ml bottle P/N 64031 $43.20/ea. (Green)

TECHNICAL DATA SHEET

 

[Beenba]

Beenba,

Did you get a answer from kimoajaj regarding this?

Yes I did and thank-you for letting me know.



Guys,

Removal of this shaft does sound possible without tearing the engine apart. I have had kimoajaj and dimebag help me out with this as you can tell.

I am willing to be the test mule for this. It is something I wanted to do last year, but never found the guts to do it...until now.

As far as the sealant I will use, I am using loctite 640 (although 680 is very similar and would also work). It is designed for splines and cylindrical parts in general, I have used both 640 and 680 with great success.

The fit between the splines is likely around 0.002" or 0.05mm (hence why we are getting the rattle) so cure time is 48hr for 100% cure.
Loctite 640 or 680 will not be effected in the presence of Motor oil or gasoline.
Both 640 and 680 will cure in the absence of oxygen.
640 will retain 85% strength at 100degrees C.
680 will retain 75% strength at 100 degrees C.
Both these products will be fine for filling the splines.
Disassembly for both is heating up the component to 250deg C. Shouldn't be a worry, since if this shaft ever needs to come out again, your motor is likely getting torn apart, so heating it up will be easy with the crank and shaft out as one piece.
Read the data sheet here for 640. http://www.all-spec.com/downloads/locti ... 20209s.pdf

EDIT: Just saw OTM's post above. I have never used 620, but it looks like it will work excellent too. At 100deg C, the strength is not affected at all. However I am sure either 620 640 or 680 will all work...because if your crank ever gets to 100 degrees C, I think you have bigger problems!


Tomorrow I plan to get the shaft out and will be taking pictures as I go. I will post back (I will likely create a new thread...with instructions for others willing to tackle it if everything goes smoothly)

Well I should probably stop rambling, however this is going to be awesome I hope.... NO MORE RATTLE for us that have tried everything.

Stay tuned..

 

[kimoajaj]

Looking forward to hearing about the result!

I`m considering doing it if it`s a success.
I did have some concerns about the axial play of the crank since there isnt any thrust bearings but when I think of the construction of the stub shaft, I realize that the forces from the clutch will never cause axial pressure on the crank because of the bearing in the stub shaft assembly. The Shaft movement is determined by the "slack" in the bearing so in other words the shaft wount move inwards against the crank.

So it should be safe!

The shaft assembly might be tricky to get out so leaving the primary on might give you some more leverage when pulling it out?

Basically it doesnt have to come off as long as you can reach the two outer screws on the crankcase.

Loctite has so many products but at work we have some Loctite 638 and the lathe guy always use this to make things stick, it said "axle retainer" on the bottle.
Could this work ? I guess.. . Hm

 

[Supa Dexta]

Looks like a faster drying product that will work in a larger gap, with roughly the same strength rating.. I can't find a temp rating on it, but it does have the same 250*c rating for disassembly. Should do the trick.

 

[Tarzan]

Looking forward to hearing about the result!

I`m considering doing it if it`s a success.
I did have some concerns about the axial play of the crank since there isnt any thrust bearings but when I think of the construction of the stub shaft, I realize that the forces from the clutch will never cause axial pressure on the crank because of the bearing in the stub shaft assembly. The Shaft movement is determined by the "slack" in the bearing so in other words the shaft wount move inwards against the crank.

So it should be safe!

The shaft assembly might be tricky to get out so leaving the primary on might give you some more leverage when pulling it out?

Basically it doesnt have to come off as long as you can reach the two outer screws on the crankcase.

Loctite has so many products but at work we have some Loctite 638 and the lathe guy always use this to make things stick, it said "axle retainer" on the bottle.
Could this work ? I guess.. . Hm

Don`t you believe in the result that i say,it is success?? This work and the Green whurt lagerlås is the stuff to use.But you are welcome to try something else than lagerlåsen.

 

[kimoajaj]

Tarzan!

Yes I believe you, but I am always sceptical when choosing non-oem solutions, Dimebag has given me the nickname "The OEM man" .

I have removed the foam from my shrouds due to installing a vent kit so I guess the clutch rattle will be worse now.. so getting it quieter is tempting!