Dalton secondary spring for Apex

[terez]

Anyone using or have feedback on the Dalton secondary spring for Apex?
Dalton red

Supposed to give more full shiftout as it wont coilbind as well as has more compression rate to belt grip better??

They offer a red and a pink/white

Stock Apex XTX with stock clutching
Just looking to improve the full shift out and prevent coil bind with otherwise stock clutching.
I'm going to freshen up both springs as they are a couple yrs old now anyway so if the Dalton is a improvement...??

 

[Stubbs]

What is it you are trying to improve upon with a spring change? Are you just worried about coil bind? I’ve had good luck running a white Yammy secondary spring in my XTX. Slightly stiffer compression than the pink, a little stiffer torsionally as well. It will not coil bind at 60* and will perform well.

 

[snobill]

Go to thunder products thread and check out the orange spring I got one but no snow to try it out but some have

 

[terez]

What is it you are trying to improve upon with a spring change? Are you just worried about coil bind? I’ve had good luck running a white Yammy secondary spring in my XTX. Slightly stiffer compression than the pink, a little stiffer torsionally as well. It will not coil bind at 60* and will perform well.

I am told that the stock black/pink sec apex spring coil binds on full shift??
The sled does seem like its not fully shifting out.

I am running a fresh 8DN belt, have no belt dust or other evidence of slip.
The engine runs strong and pulls full rpm easily...10600 creeping to 10800.
Exup verified running properly.

Is the yammie white spring smaller diameter wire than the black/pink? My understanding is it is the wire diameter issue more than the rate causing coil bind on full shift??
A bit more compression load likely wouldn't hurt either..which is what the Dalton is supposed to offer...maybe the yammie white is the same?

 

[Stubbs]

The Yammy white is a little stiffer, so you can get “force” values similar to the Pink spring with less wrap, therefore reducing the chance of coilbind at full shift. You can also slip a 3/16 lock washer over the helix mounting studs before installing the helix. The extra space added will keep from binding in the spring pocket. Most all aftermarket helixes are already machined to alleviate this possibility.

 

[terez]

So a yammie white spring wrapped at 60deg and a slight shim of the helix should work well then?
Is this what you have/are run?

Thanks

 

[Stubbs]

I’ve run that setup in the past on a couple different Apex sleds. Currently I’m playing with an Ulmer kit in my XTX, but using the white spring at 60* vs. the stock pink at 70*. Allan and I had a convo on the phone about it, and he verified the two spring are very close to each other with these wrap settings.

 

[terez]

Just got back from the Yammie parts counter...
Bought new primary/sec springs, shims for the secondary belt height.

Bought the Yammie white/white....it is the same as the white but shot peened for improved life..same rates. And a new silver/blue primary.
Will put the new springs in and shim the helix with 3/16 washers as you recommended.

Should be ideal.
I'll post when I get her out and ridden.

Thanks for the help....

 

[Stubbs]

No problem. I’ve learned an absolute ton on this site, and I like to pay it forward as often as I can. Cheers.

 

[terez]

Lastly

60deg is a 3/3 wrap correct?
And if I find that wrap too tight for high rom or too quick backshift I can go down to 50deg which would be a 3/2 wrap which is 3 on the helix and 2 on the fixed sheave?

Thanks

 

[Stubbs]

That is correct, but short of backing it off 10* for a radar/speed run, 60* (3-3) should work well. It seems to be the sweet spot with this spring combining enough side force to hang onto the belt, enough torsional load to not let the belt get sucked down into the secondary on a hard launch, but not too much of either as to hold the shift too much and sacrifice clutch efficiency.