Does Yamaha Motor Company take Notice?

[thegrizzly1]

First of all, TY and all of it’s volunteers, this is an awesome site! Thank you for all the hard work. My following comments are not a complaint about any particular issue, just my thoughts about those that seem to be re-occurring time and time again.

I have read numerous posts about problems members and owners have had with their new sleds. From idler wheels delaminating, cracked skids, excessive hifax wear, to hand warmer issues and everything in between. Now we all ride Yamaha for a reason, but I will admit there have been some problems that seem to keep re-occurring that should have been taken care of years ago.

I know there is a whole wealth of information out there with our TY members and we have several dealers on this site. Is there any direct way that TY members or consumers in general can get our voices hear by Yamaha Motor Corporation? I know the first step should be thru the dealer, but not all dealers are either willing or able to get our point across to Yamaha in a way that makes them take action.

Some people here vent, others ask questions, but I feel that everyone would be overjoyed to know that Yamaha has seriously taken their concerns and complaints into account and addressed the situation. I realize that there have been many solutions volunteered to members like JB weld the leaky grease zerts or buy the older style idler wheels, but seriously, there is no way some of these problems should be re-appearing for the fourth and fifth season in a row and some of them universally thru Yamaha’s entire product line.

I personally would like to know my voice is being heard by someone at Yamaha who is willing and has the power to make a difference. I am very curious if there are any Yamaha employees, especially in management positions who are members of TY?

I have owned several Yamaha machines over the years as many of you have. I bleed blue like the rest of you. I just feel that if Yamaha took care of some of these recurring issues, they would not be a competitor in the snowmobile market, they would become the benchmark all other manufactures judge themselves by.

 

[FAMILYMAN]

Yamaha motor company is much aware of this site.

And my opinion is this, they would be silly not to read comments...positive and negative. And like most engineers, they may not let you know they are listening..but they are.

Just my opinion!

My opinion on re-accuring issues is this. When you manufacture you need to pile up the parts to build and sell. So what happends when you have a product that just isnt the greatest, but it works. Well do you eat alot of profit to replace the product or wait till the stock runs out to address it. I have unfortuantely been in that position, knowing we had a product that could be better but couldnt justify changing it. This may not be the case..but it its the case for alot of issues...once again my opinion.

 

[Tork]

I have read numerous posts about problems members and owners have had with their new sleds. From idler wheels delaminating, cracked skids, excessive hifax wear, to hand warmer issues and everything in between. Now we all ride Yamaha for a reason, but I will admit there have been some problems that seem to keep re-occurring that should have been taken care of years ago.

1. I think a little differently about the idlers delaminating. Yamaha didnt make the wheels, they got burned by a supplier. I think Y did the best they could, giving just about everybody new wheels.

2 cracked skids, and similar issues. A lot of that results from Yamaha being constantly bashed over the weight issue. So they try to go lightweight wherever they can and sometimes it backfires.

3. Sleds are out there in tough conditions taking a pounding. We can treat them like offroad race cars and trucks. If you watch racing, you know that things break constantly.

Is there any direct way that TY members or consumers in general can get our voices hear by Yamaha Motor Corporation?

Yamaha had a couple guys that read this site and even posted, but I am not noticing much of that currently. But I am a little out of the loop on that MrSled would know more obviously. Way to get your voice heard is through your dealer, calling the 800 number, writing a letter.
Posting on TY finding a problem, letting people know is a good thing.
The over the top venting is awful and makes us look like internet crackpot terrorists. What you dont know is MrSled fights the good fight behind the scenes. If you knew how hard he works at this, he would be ramped up quite a few notches on on your hero list

Some people here vent, others ask questions, but I feel that everyone would be overjoyed to know that Yamaha has seriously taken their concerns and complaints into account and addressed the situation. I realize that there have been many solutions volunteered to members like JB weld the leaky grease zerts or buy the older style idler wheels, but seriously, there is no way some of these problems should be re-appearing ...

As you can see everywhere on this site, problems are freely discussed. Venting, we do take steps to crack down on that, and I suspect we might start to crack down harder. If you study the venting, you will see sooo much game playing going on. A guy might rant and rave over a particular problem, then you come to find out the guy does not even own that model of sled
"solutions volunteered to members". That right there is why so many of us love TY. We have an amazing amount of very talented nice people that solve problems and help people in general constantly.
Know that sleds are a tiny segment of business for Yamaha, no way could they do it if they didnt have the infrastructure in place because of motorcycles, ATV's water craft and so on.
Know also that these great 4 stroke motors cost about twice to produce them vs a 2 stroke. If they didnt make some effort to keep costs down, there would be no more Yamaha Snowmobiles

 

[Sled Dog]

Yamaha Canada has a blog set up to talk directly to the consumer for sleds and bikes. He (Chris) posts here regularly and got Yamaha Canada onboard with a banner to support this site.

 

[08NitroRTX]

WITHOUT going into detail... Yes this site IS watched by many eyes! Most WILL remain quiet!

 

[thegrizzly1]

Thanks for all of the positive feedback. My original post wasn't intended to be a bash. I was just curious who all looked at what our members have to say. I am glad to know someone at Yamaha visits our site.

 

[Tork]

Yamaha motor company is much aware of this site.

And my opinion is this, they would be silly not to read comments...positive and negative. And like most engineers, they may not let you know they are listening..but they are.

In a way, thinking this might be screwing up the site.
Let me try to explain.
Lets break it down, Yamaha engineers in Japan:
The engineer that designed the gauges for the fx nytro, his next assignment might be designing a circuit board for Yamaha musical instruments. Even though many Japanese speak english, there still is a language barrier, so I basically rule out Japan watching the site

The Yamaha headquarters and tech center in Cyprus California:
Well most of these guys are busy with the bigger markets like motorcycles
so I rule out cypress california.

Lastly, we have the regional headquarters in Pleasant Prarie Wisconsin.
I do believe the marketing guys do check the site for marketing ideas, but stay away from technical problem issues as they are not tech guys.

Finally we are down to a handful of tech guys in Pleasant Prarie Wisconson.

If you want to know how much time they have to watch this site, and how thinking that Yamaha has their finger on the pulse of TY screws us up......just ask, I will tell you!

 

[thegrizzly1]

I agree that a lot of our ideas might not get read by anyone in Japan directly. However, I have seen every snowmobile manufacture's trailer in the U.P and across the Midwest. I know they make it out west in the mountains and up to Alaska. Every state has probably seen some of their test riders at some point. I would have to believe these test riders not only run the machines thru their paces, but also help diagnose current and potential issues. I have to believe that more input is derived from people riding in our back yards than one might think.

I can not speak for certain as I have never worked for Yamaha Motor corporation, but I have a hard time believing that the Japanese engineer's bounce from one division to another on such a (for lack of better term) whim. Furthermore, I refer to Yamaha Motor Corporation only. I believe it is a separate entity from their other divisions.

Perhaps one of our members can shed some light on the financials, but I have to believe that snowmobiles alone have to be a multimillion dollar market for any of the manufactures.

I can't believe any company out there would knowingly repeat what happened to OMC. I will only summarize several of the comments I heard from dealers, but OMC basically used the public for all of their R&D and with several recalls and failures they eventually went out of business. Yes, I know there is more to the story than only what I have wrote, but it was a common theme.

I believe Yamaha must listen to it's consumers to be as successful as they have become. It's just nice to get acknowledgement once in a while that our woes are being dealt with. That being said, it is unfathomable to me why after at least 4 years in a row (I don’t know if the 08’s are still having problems) they still couldn’t get a grease zert right. That comes down to manufacturing and quality. It can not be passed onto a supplier or any third party for that matter. This is one problem that was common across their line up and most certainly were not isolated cases. I feel this isn’t a problem I should have to deal with on a $10,000+ machine.

I know this is going to open a whole can of worms, but do a search on the problems with the F-150 spark plug issues. This is another case where I don’t feel the consumer should shoulder the responsibility of very expensive repairs on a fairly common problem that first showed it’s face in 1997.

Furthermore, on the grease zert issue, a lot of consumers are not able to remove their own skids to get the zerts welded or epoxy in. This does take time which equates to money. I happen to have an excellent dealer, who takes great care of me, but if I asked him to remove a skid, disassemble it, prep all areas for welding, weld in all of the zerts, repaint welded areas, and reassemble it, I am pretty sure I know where he will tell me to go.

 

[Tork]

Yamaha Canada has a blog set up to talk directly to the consumer for sleds and bikes. He (Chris) posts here regularly and got Yamaha Canada onboard with a banner to support this site.

Chris is exceptional. This man knows the value of the internet and customer service. Some of these old scooler Execs of these corporations think forums have little value (not speaking specifically about Yamaha, just in general)

Thanks for all of the positive feedback. My original post wasn't intended to be a bash. .

Exact opposit of a bash I thought, well written, good questions etc

 

[rightarm]

Yamaha is and always will be the leader in 4 stroke technology,unfortunatley they cannot please everybody all the time,too take a groomed trail sled and pound the thing like a big bump sled to the point where you break the skid is your own fault not Yamaha's hence the name "groomed trail sled".Any delamination of the wheels was addressed by Yamaha to the best of there and dealer ability,to complain about leaking zerk fittings is petty!same as the hyfax wear if you break them in properly through heat cycling they last forever.If Yamaha were to build the perfect sled(which there is no such thing) it would cost the comsumer in the area of $18,000 or more then the complaint would be it's too much,the problem is that some just don't know how good they have it here at Yamaha!Just my .02 If you don't agree go back to the 2-stroke you came from and enjoy months of repairs,better yet wait for the 4 strokes from those other manufacturers and see all the problems you'll have. :!

 

[Tork]

rightarm
your post is good, agree with quite a bit of it. I did take the stop bashing Yamaha part out because nobody is bashing yamaha....so far anyway.

You are looking at things realistically I think, but then somebody might come along and accuse you of bleeding blue

The zerk issue
Threaded might offer the best seal, but the material is too thin. A weld all around the zerk sounds cool, but that much weld around a tiny part on that thin of a metal, could distort and weaken the metal. Tach weld and jb weld sounds nice, but that would raise the cost. Bean counters might dictate that the cost is not worth the gain.

Everything made on an assembly line is subject to compromises to keep the cost down. I dont know why, but 10 Yamaha sleds later, all zerks installed with the tack weld. I have had only 2 that leak a little but still get grease into the suspension.

I did have to go to a Doo little bit bigger idler wheel and use SLP wearpads to solve my short hyfax life. It is solved though, beyond my expectation. No big deal a few bucks and a little effort, goodbye problem!!

 

[rightarm]

Yeah sorry Tork when it comes to Yamaha I do bleed blue,but that's not to say that I don't respect what the other manufacturer's are doing.If Yamaha were to do as the consumer says we would have CD PLAYERS,DVD PLAYERS,AND BLUE TOOTH ON OUR SLEDS and that's not what it is about.I feel Yamaha does a excellent job providing the consumer with reliablility,quality and power.I have owned the original 03 RX1 without any issues and sold it at the end of last year with regret,although I will miss it I also know that Yamaha Motor Company will never let me down and hope that in the 09/10 line up that they will spark that excitment in me like they did in 03.

Thank you Yamaha for filling that void.

 

[Sled Dog]

The zerk issue is one I wish Yamaha would take seriously and fix. For the simple reason that does fall in line with quality,durability,reliability, fit & finish. I would hope they would see this as a very easily fixed issue and it is also very visible. The competition could easily have a hay day with this and Yamaha stating top notch quality. This is not a bash Yamaha just an observation.

 

[Tork]

The zerk issue is one I wish Yamaha would take seriously and fix. For the simple reason that does fall in line with quality,durability,reliability, fit & finish. I would hope they would see this as a very easily fixed issue and it is also very visible. The competition could easily have a hay day with this and Yamaha stating top notch quality. This is not a bash Yamaha just an observation.

I do see and agree with what you are saying Rod....I am just trying to give some insights as to how big corporations tend to work, plus my many years of real life experiances. I would be thrilled to see the zerks improved too, but I can also understand logically why it might not ever happen

 

[Sled Dog]

The zerk issue is one I wish Yamaha would take seriously and fix. For the simple reason that does fall in line with quality,durability,reliability, fit & finish. I would hope they would see this as a very easily fixed issue and it is also very visible. The competition could easily have a hay day with this and Yamaha stating top notch quality. This is not a bash Yamaha just an observation.

I do see and agree with what you are saying Rod....I am just trying to give some insights as to how big corporations tend to work, plus my many years of real life experiances. I would be thrilled to see the zerks improved too, but I can also understand logically why it might not ever happen

I hear you Tork, but it is a challenge I am sure a young engineer at Yamaha would love to tackle. Who knows maybe they are already working on it and have it all figured out. One never knows!