Exhaust donuts and Ypipes MUST READ

[Murse]

Changed donuts and fixed temporarily for rest of season with copper exhaust gasket maker lots of snow here do not want to waste any more time this fix will be much better than it was. I am disappointed with Yamaha for this Ypipes cracking issue I love them but this is very disappointing. Will be ordering stainless excell for next season will install as summer project. Excited to get back on trail with this fixed I'm sure I will get much better performance and gas mileage. Anxious to go out tomorrow. Thanks for this sticky! helped a lot. P.S. anyone with an Apex when you get to 6 or 7 k check these donuts. There is evidence on mine that the donuts have been gone for a while and caused my Ypipes to crack and break. There is burnt marks on insulation and frame indicating an exhaust leak that has been going on for a while. Wish I would have caught it sooner but I guess a header is coming out of this and hopefully I'll see some gains. Pictures are not in order but you get the point. Used a lot of the red stuff to seal her up and final product the clamps go back on as well with more red goop to ensure a good seal for this season.

Thanks to Dan's sticky this job was done pretty simply and in around 3hrs. Just want to point out that further damage could have been preventing if this was checked way earlier I will be sure to add this on an every 2 season pre check "check list." Yamaha Should have made a stainless header from the get go...

 

[mr. shide]

buddy had an 07 that the donuts were toast at 2500 miles. mine were about to go at 3800 miles.

 

[smoothride]

Had the same thing happen to mine but also hade mine crack in the middle of the header. The bracket that hold's the header pipes the pop rivets will wear throw the tunnel so check them when ever you have the gas tank off.

 

[Rich Kay]

Ok I will try to desribe what I have done to my apex and what I think is causing this problem....I took my sled (exhaust) apart when it only had 1500 miles on it because I was hearing about all the failures to just take a look(07 apex).What I found was a few things that cause this. One, the clamps are not clamping the flared pipe fittings all the way around the diameter of the pipes. If you look at the second pic of the post above you can see with consistency the top and bottom of the flares are failing due to the clamp putting uneven presure on the flare fittings. Add to that the clamps have a VERY sharp edge on them where this contact is made also I could take my clamps and rotate them by hand before even loosening them! So from day one they are destined to fail....So what I did was to custom fit the clamps by deburring the inside edges of the clamps and make them make contact all the way around the pipe (this takes a little time and patience and a die grinder or dremmel tool) then remove material from the built in clamp stops so the clamps have adequate pressure (no way you can turn them by hand after tightening them). In reality the stock graphoil gaskets will work just fine if all this is done because they are not getting shook and vibrated due to the poor fit of components. My gaskets at 1500m where already showing most of there shape being wore out but no damage to any pipes yet. I did this 8000 miles ago along with new stock gaskets and they are still tight and have no apparent leaks! I like the idea of the copper gaskets and they explain why they are and will last much longer (they are tougher) to all the vibration with poor fitting clamps. But I think this is the real problem. Hope this sheads a little light on what i think we are missing....Rich.

 

[yamaha convert]

Ok I will try to desribe what I have done to my apex and what I think is causing this problem....I took my sled (exhaust) apart when it only had 1500 miles on it because I was hearing about all the failures to just take a look(07 apex).What I found was a few things that cause this. One, the clamps are not clamping the flared pipe fittings all the way around the diameter of the pipes. If you look at the second pic of the post above you can see with consistency the top and bottom of the flares are failing due to the clamp putting uneven presure on the flare fittings. Add to that the clamps have a VERY sharp edge on them where this contact is made also I could take my clamps and rotate them by hand before even loosening them! So from day one they are destined to fail....So what I did was to custom fit the clamps by deburring the inside edges of the clamps and make them make contact all the way around the pipe (this takes a little time and patience and a die grinder or dremmel tool) then remove material from the built in clamp stops so the clamps have adequate pressure (no way you can turn them by hand after tightening them). In reality the stock graphoil gaskets will work just fine if all this is done because they are not getting shook and vibrated due to the poor fit of components. My gaskets at 1500m where already showing most of there shape being wore out but no damage to any pipes yet. I did this 8000 miles ago along with new stock gaskets and they are still tight and have no apparent leaks! I like the idea of the copper gaskets and they explain why they are and will last much longer (they are tougher) to all the vibration with poor fitting clamps. But I think this is the real problem. Hope this sheads a little light on what i think we are missing....Rich.

This is a very good point. I checked my donuts at a little over 2500 miles on both my sleds and they were in good condition. Some where showing signs of wear and I had one clamp that wasnt as tight as it could have been but nothing terrible. I replaced the doghnuts regardless with copper units and checked one sled today at 5000 miles. Everything is as tight as when I did the job. I think from memory the copper doghnuts were a little thicker than the graphite factory units and this alone ensures the clamps hold them tighter. So for me the copper doghnuts and the factoiry clamps unmodified are at this stage are holding up fine, but then my clamps were not bottomed out on their stops even with the graphite gaskets.

 

[erosled]

I am disappointed with Yamaha for this Ypipes cracking issue I love them but this is very disappointing.

anyone with an Apex when you get to 6 or 7 k check these donuts. There is evidence on mine that the donuts have been gone for a while and caused my Ypipes to crack and break.

Just want to point out that further damage could have been preventing if this was checked way earlier I will be sure to add this on an every 2 season pre check "check list."

Yamaha clearly spells out in both the owners and service manuals to check the exhaust system Every Season or 2K miles, which ever comes first, and to replace gaskets as needed.(same for either 2 or 4 stroke) If people would actually follow the scheduled maint checklist, I doubt there would be so many posts on this subject.

 

[Rich Kay]

Just my take on that......I somewhat think yamaha may know this is a area that is prone to a problem (they rode and tested the sled long before we had it!) and I (again just my thoughts) think that with all the credit yamaha gets for detail I think the life span of this design is a little short of what most of us would expect to be "mormal" especially from yamaha. I dont think this should be a 2000m or every season inspection but yamaha thinks so ?? Besides it is not real easy or a 10 min job. Not saying I have the fix but time is proving I did somthing that has improved it much like the copper gaskets help also? Yamaha has replaced these(gaskets) and pipes that are trashed because of failure on many sleds under warranty, extended or not with no questions asked ?? but they have them as a maintenance check.... and have a replacement part # for a stainless pipe system.
Again just my take.Cheers Rich.

 

[smoothride]

Just make sheer that you check the rivets that hold the bracket that holds the header pipes up in the the front because that is what happened to my sled.rivets got lose and war throw the thin aluminum and then nothing is holding up the front of the header pipes. My header pipes also broke in half.

 

[yamaha convert]

Just my take on that......I somewhat think yamaha may know this is a area that is prone to a problem (they rode and tested the sled long before we had it!) and I (again just my thoughts) think that with all the credit yamaha gets for detail I think the life span of this design is a little short of what most of us would expect to be "mormal" especially from yamaha. I dont think this should be a 2000m or every season inspection but yamaha thinks so ?? Besides it is not real easy or a 10 min job. Not saying I have the fix but time is proving I did somthing that has improved it much like the copper gaskets help also? Yamaha has replaced these(gaskets) and pipes that are trashed because of failure on many sleds under warranty, extended or not with no questions asked ?? but they have them as a maintenance check.... and have a replacement part # for a stainless pipe system.
Again just my take.Cheers Rich.

I agree.

 

[erosled]

Just my take on that......I somewhat think yamaha may know this is a area that is prone to a problem

I think the life span of this design is a little short of what most of us would expect to be "mormal" especially from yamaha. I dont think this should be a 2000m or every season inspection but yamaha thinks so ??

Yamaha has replaced these(gaskets) and pipes that are trashed because of failure on many sleds under warranty, extended or not with no questions asked ?? .

The exhaust gaskets wear out on two stroke sleds in 3K miles too.

I'm not seeing the issue, people either can do preventative maint, or spend more money and time on repairs later, or hope Yamaha will pay for it. If somebody decides not to follow the guidelines they provide, that's up to the individual. My two cents anyway.

 

[Sled Dog]

I am disappointed with Yamaha for this Ypipes cracking issue I love them but this is very disappointing.

anyone with an Apex when you get to 6 or 7 k check these donuts. There is evidence on mine that the donuts have been gone for a while and caused my Ypipes to crack and break.

Just want to point out that further damage could have been preventing if this was checked way earlier I will be sure to add this on an every 2 season pre check "check list."

Yamaha clearly spells out in both the owners and service manuals to check the exhaust system Every Season or 2K miles, which ever comes first, and to replace gaskets as needed.(same for either 2 or 4 stroke) If people would actually follow the scheduled maint checklist, I doubt there would be so many posts on this subject.

Are you kidding me this type of fitting should not fail on a yamaha period. They should come factory with copper donuts and end this problem.

 

[yamaha convert]

I am disappointed with Yamaha for this Ypipes cracking issue I love them but this is very disappointing.

anyone with an Apex when you get to 6 or 7 k check these donuts. There is evidence on mine that the donuts have been gone for a while and caused my Ypipes to crack and break.

Just want to point out that further damage could have been preventing if this was checked way earlier I will be sure to add this on an every 2 season pre check "check list."

Yamaha clearly spells out in both the owners and service manuals to check the exhaust system Every Season or 2K miles, which ever comes first, and to replace gaskets as needed.(same for either 2 or 4 stroke) If people would actually follow the scheduled maint checklist, I doubt there would be so many posts on this subject.

Are you kidding me this type of fitting should not fail on a yamaha period. They should come factory with copper donuts and end this problem.

It certainly does seem odd for an engine that is inherently reliable and doesnt need a valve tappets checked till 20000 miles. I think I read somewhere that the doghnuts were revised in later models.

 

[Murse]

I am disappointed with Yamaha for this Ypipes cracking issue I love them but this is very disappointing.

anyone with an Apex when you get to 6 or 7 k check these donuts. There is evidence on mine that the donuts have been gone for a while and caused my Ypipes to crack and break.

Just want to point out that further damage could have been preventing if this was checked way earlier I will be sure to add this on an every 2 season pre check "check list."

Yamaha clearly spells out in both the owners and service manuals to check the exhaust system Every Season or 2K miles, which ever comes first, and to replace gaskets as needed.(same for either 2 or 4 stroke) If people would actually follow the scheduled maint checklist, I doubt there would be so many posts on this subject.

Well I'm a newbie to this exhaust system and bought the sled used with no manual so yea...I am definitely going with stainless excell y pipes and copper donuts soon and will be checking every season now that I know what to look for and listen for.