ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
What I did was:
1. Remove headlight pod, plastic covers, seat and tank (this is a fairly big job - took me about 2 hours, but this was my first time removing the tank and I was taking my time inspecting everything - and not loosing any bolts...).
2. Remove heat shield.
3. Realize there was no way I could unbolt all of the pipe clamps with them facing down, so I used a pair of large vice grips and managed to rotate them so the bolts were accessible. Most of them were very difficult to turn.
4. Unbolt the clamps and remove them.
5. Remove heat shield on muffler and unbolt muffler.
6. Remove round plugs in tunnel and unbolt the two bolts holding the y-pipes in position.
7. Slide the exhaust back as far as possible and wrestle the old donuts out.
8. Start experimenting, trying to reinstall the best old donut without damaging it. So far I haven't been able to without slicing it slightly.
9. I also removed the oval tunnel plugs and loosened the y-pipe to main pipe bolts to try to get more movement. It didn't help.
10. I also removed the skid after this so I could see what is going on underneath, but it didn't help either.
At this point I can either force the new donuts into place, likely damaging them a little, or do something different to make them fit (motor mounts, cut off tab on y-pipe mounting bracket, drill out y-pipe mounting bracket rivets, unbolt headers, or ???).
Removing the headers is probably the easiest option, but I don't want to reuse the gasket and don't know if I can get one locally. Personally I've never had any luck with high temp sealant on header connections so I don't want to go that route either (but I do want to get sledding again...).
1. Remove headlight pod, plastic covers, seat and tank (this is a fairly big job - took me about 2 hours, but this was my first time removing the tank and I was taking my time inspecting everything - and not loosing any bolts...).
2. Remove heat shield.
3. Realize there was no way I could unbolt all of the pipe clamps with them facing down, so I used a pair of large vice grips and managed to rotate them so the bolts were accessible. Most of them were very difficult to turn.
4. Unbolt the clamps and remove them.
5. Remove heat shield on muffler and unbolt muffler.
6. Remove round plugs in tunnel and unbolt the two bolts holding the y-pipes in position.
7. Slide the exhaust back as far as possible and wrestle the old donuts out.
8. Start experimenting, trying to reinstall the best old donut without damaging it. So far I haven't been able to without slicing it slightly.
9. I also removed the oval tunnel plugs and loosened the y-pipe to main pipe bolts to try to get more movement. It didn't help.
10. I also removed the skid after this so I could see what is going on underneath, but it didn't help either.
At this point I can either force the new donuts into place, likely damaging them a little, or do something different to make them fit (motor mounts, cut off tab on y-pipe mounting bracket, drill out y-pipe mounting bracket rivets, unbolt headers, or ???).
Removing the headers is probably the easiest option, but I don't want to reuse the gasket and don't know if I can get one locally. Personally I've never had any luck with high temp sealant on header connections so I don't want to go that route either (but I do want to get sledding again...).
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
We need to combine the two posts going right now but I don't know if that's even possible. Anyway here is what I have found. the bracket that the Y-pipes mount to does not allow them to be removed buy pulling back on them they have to go forward, into the headers. I think the only safe way of removing the Y-pipes is to drill out the 10 rivets holding the bracket to the tunnel. Yes it sucks but so does the fact that we are even having to do this in the first place. I also think that even if you can get the donuts into position without removing the pipes you may miss a hole in the pipe at the bottom of the tube. At any rate here are the pics I have of the rivets to remove and the Y-pipe with the hole in it. I remind you
I just heard the noise on the way back from a 200 mile day and I parked it that night and that was it for the trip. Also these pipes appear to be Titanium which means they have to be welded in an Argon bubble, most probbly don't have that, besides the thickness and contamination from exhaust would make it even worse. For those wondering what this will cost here's the breakdown from Port Yamaha.
Also I had to drill out and easy-out the bolts that hold the Y-pipe to the tunnel. The hex stripped right out of it. That was after spending 10 min. cleaning and making sure the hex socket was all the way down in to the bolt. So if your going to embark on this wonderfull task, get a good set of twist drills a a set of easy-outs.
Need 4 of these
4 GASKET, EXHAUST PIPE
8FA-14623-00-00 4 $9.03
Right Side Y-Pipe
13 EXHAUST PIPE ASSY 1
8FP-14610-00-00 1 $272.76
Left Side Y-Pipe
14 EXHAUST PIPE ASSY 2
8FP-14620-00-00 1 $266.67
Good news is, it's the left side on mine. Bad news is I can see were the right side is just about worn through as well. So it looks like it's off to the dealer to see about the warrenty. I have the Y.E.S. and it better cover this.
I'm not sinking another $600.00 into this sled.
Word to the wise change these out every spring. Yes it sucks and it's total B.S. but it beats the alternative.
I just heard the noise on the way back from a 200 mile day and I parked it that night and that was it for the trip. Also these pipes appear to be Titanium which means they have to be welded in an Argon bubble, most probbly don't have that, besides the thickness and contamination from exhaust would make it even worse. For those wondering what this will cost here's the breakdown from Port Yamaha.
Also I had to drill out and easy-out the bolts that hold the Y-pipe to the tunnel. The hex stripped right out of it. That was after spending 10 min. cleaning and making sure the hex socket was all the way down in to the bolt. So if your going to embark on this wonderfull task, get a good set of twist drills a a set of easy-outs.
Need 4 of these
4 GASKET, EXHAUST PIPE
8FA-14623-00-00 4 $9.03
Right Side Y-Pipe
13 EXHAUST PIPE ASSY 1
8FP-14610-00-00 1 $272.76
Left Side Y-Pipe
14 EXHAUST PIPE ASSY 2
8FP-14620-00-00 1 $266.67
Good news is, it's the left side on mine. Bad news is I can see were the right side is just about worn through as well. So it looks like it's off to the dealer to see about the warrenty. I have the Y.E.S. and it better cover this.
I'm not sinking another $600.00 into this sled.
Word to the wise change these out every spring. Yes it sucks and it's total B.S. but it beats the alternative.
Attachments
AttakDog
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Still waiting on word from Yamaha on my pipes, looked way worse than yours. I had the same problems with the allen head bolts on both sleds. I had the skids out so I just heated the nuts from the bottom with my torches. A liitle anti-seize here at re-assembly for the next donut change!
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I lucked out and managed to get the allen head bolts out. I was very careful to make sure the allen socket was fully seated and then used a long ratchet so I could make sure the socket remained perpendicular all the time.
I anti-seized mine on the way back in also.
As far as changing the donuts I managed to get the new ones installed by getting a second person to manipulate the exhaust. While they moved the exhaust to "just the right position", I used a large pry bar to very carefully help to compress the header flexures by a couple of millimeters. With that combination I was "just" able to get the new donuts into position.
BTW, I practiced with the old donuts to make sure I could do it without damaging them (and I did damage the old ones before getting it right...).
I anti-seized mine on the way back in also.
As far as changing the donuts I managed to get the new ones installed by getting a second person to manipulate the exhaust. While they moved the exhaust to "just the right position", I used a large pry bar to very carefully help to compress the header flexures by a couple of millimeters. With that combination I was "just" able to get the new donuts into position.
BTW, I practiced with the old donuts to make sure I could do it without damaging them (and I did damage the old ones before getting it right...).
grumpysanta
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
exhaust
no don't drop skid but you must remove the four flex pipes from motor and try to leave muffler alone just remove the two hex bolts near the front under the rubber plugs to give some play because you cannot slide y pipe back . poor design
no don't drop skid but you must remove the four flex pipes from motor and try to leave muffler alone just remove the two hex bolts near the front under the rubber plugs to give some play because you cannot slide y pipe back . poor design
attakred06
Pro
one little question^^^^did you guys remove the rear suspension???
apex yooper
Expert
donuts
A couple more questions.
What is the torque for the header pipes? Should we use blue loctite?
A couple more questions.
What is the torque for the header pipes? Should we use blue loctite?
GotJuice
Expert
did this problem also happen to the RX-1
I can't remember reading anyone with these same problems on the RX-1 ? Can we use the pipe from the RX-1 to remedy the Apex problem.....maybe? What about a brass or copper exhaust donut that can't blow out, similar to what we use on street rods for header gaskets ?
I can't remember reading anyone with these same problems on the RX-1 ? Can we use the pipe from the RX-1 to remedy the Apex problem.....maybe? What about a brass or copper exhaust donut that can't blow out, similar to what we use on street rods for header gaskets ?
apex yooper
Expert
exhaust removal
juice,
A metal donut would probably wear out the expensive pipes.
juice,
A metal donut would probably wear out the expensive pipes.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Re: did this problem also happen to the RX-1
The 05 RX-1 had a similar weakness but I think it uses the same y-pipe and header as the Apex.
The 03/04 RX-1 used a different y-pipe that apparently was thicker and made of stainless steel (instead of titanium). I've heard that the pipes don't fail as easily, but I expect the donuts would still fail the same way (can't confirm this though - just a guess).
The other thing I expect is the Apex probably makes more heat in the header than the RX-1. With the higher hp, more aggressive cam and worse fuel economy, it would make sense that more heat is thrown into the exhaust.
GotJuice said:
The 05 RX-1 had a similar weakness but I think it uses the same y-pipe and header as the Apex.
The 03/04 RX-1 used a different y-pipe that apparently was thicker and made of stainless steel (instead of titanium). I've heard that the pipes don't fail as easily, but I expect the donuts would still fail the same way (can't confirm this though - just a guess).
The other thing I expect is the Apex probably makes more heat in the header than the RX-1. With the higher hp, more aggressive cam and worse fuel economy, it would make sense that more heat is thrown into the exhaust.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
attakred06 said:
I did, but you don't need to. I needed to change a couple of idler wheels and rebuild the shocks so I took it out.
Removing the skid does let you see what is going on under there, but it doesn't really help.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Re: exhaust
I suppose you could do it that way, but my dealer told me not to touch the headers and to instead pull the entire exhaust back as far as possible.
The technique I used (and it worked) was to unbolt the muffler & the two bolts that hold the y-pipe in place (allen head bolts are under the tank) and to pull the entire exhaust to the rear as far as possible.
Then, with a buddy helping, push the header tubes forward enough to slip the new donuts in place (while moving the muffler around a little to maximise the gap).
I agree the design should have allowed enough space to make it easy. The way it is right now is silly and requires much more effort than it should. All it would take is to form those little, downward pointing tabs on the y-pipe mount towards the rear by a couple of mm and the job would be much easier.
I was so close to drilling out the y-pipe mount rivets and reworking the mount to move those tabs back a little (to make it easier for next time).
grumpysanta said:
I suppose you could do it that way, but my dealer told me not to touch the headers and to instead pull the entire exhaust back as far as possible.
The technique I used (and it worked) was to unbolt the muffler & the two bolts that hold the y-pipe in place (allen head bolts are under the tank) and to pull the entire exhaust to the rear as far as possible.
Then, with a buddy helping, push the header tubes forward enough to slip the new donuts in place (while moving the muffler around a little to maximise the gap).
I agree the design should have allowed enough space to make it easy. The way it is right now is silly and requires much more effort than it should. All it would take is to form those little, downward pointing tabs on the y-pipe mount towards the rear by a couple of mm and the job would be much easier.
I was so close to drilling out the y-pipe mount rivets and reworking the mount to move those tabs back a little (to make it easier for next time).
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Tonight I finished off the exhaust on my 07 RTX.
I had left the donut clamps loose until tonight. When I tightened them up I discovered that all 4 were still so loose that I could easily spin the clamps by hand.
With the 4 new donuts, to tighten the clamps to the point where I couldn't turn them by hand (but could still turn them with a tool) I had to grind down the clamp spacers by:
- 0.025" from the mag side (the old donut was still good)
- 0.105" from the center mag side (the old one was close to being totally blown)
- 0.120" from the center PTO side (the old one was totally blown)
- 0.015" from the PTO side (the old one was still good)
Obviously, even though there are no (visible) holes in the y-pipes, there must be a fair bit of wear on the center two.
I also found it strange that even clamps that were tight with the old gaskets were loose with the new ones (I replaced all of the donuts, even the two that had not failed). When I started to take it apart, all of the clamps had also spun so the bolt was at the bottom. For the two good gaskets it took everything I could muster to spin them so I could unbolt them. With the new gaskets, the clamps were loose at first. The only thing I can think of is the new donuts must be slightly thinner than the original ones.
I also don't know how tight these really should be clamped. Loose enough to spin easily by hand is obviously not going to seal very well. Seeing how loose mine were I wouldn't be surprised if Yamaha has a tech bulletin out for dealers to grind some of the spacer down.
Does anyone know if Yamaha has an official procedure for this or is it just random luck if a dealer's mechanic grinds them down to make the donuts tight when replacing them.
How tight should the clamps be (how difficult to spin them once installed and tightened up)?
I had left the donut clamps loose until tonight. When I tightened them up I discovered that all 4 were still so loose that I could easily spin the clamps by hand.
With the 4 new donuts, to tighten the clamps to the point where I couldn't turn them by hand (but could still turn them with a tool) I had to grind down the clamp spacers by:
- 0.025" from the mag side (the old donut was still good)
- 0.105" from the center mag side (the old one was close to being totally blown)
- 0.120" from the center PTO side (the old one was totally blown)
- 0.015" from the PTO side (the old one was still good)
Obviously, even though there are no (visible) holes in the y-pipes, there must be a fair bit of wear on the center two.
I also found it strange that even clamps that were tight with the old gaskets were loose with the new ones (I replaced all of the donuts, even the two that had not failed). When I started to take it apart, all of the clamps had also spun so the bolt was at the bottom. For the two good gaskets it took everything I could muster to spin them so I could unbolt them. With the new gaskets, the clamps were loose at first. The only thing I can think of is the new donuts must be slightly thinner than the original ones.
I also don't know how tight these really should be clamped. Loose enough to spin easily by hand is obviously not going to seal very well. Seeing how loose mine were I wouldn't be surprised if Yamaha has a tech bulletin out for dealers to grind some of the spacer down.
Does anyone know if Yamaha has an official procedure for this or is it just random luck if a dealer's mechanic grinds them down to make the donuts tight when replacing them.
How tight should the clamps be (how difficult to spin them once installed and tightened up)?
AttakDog
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I asked yamaha product specialist about this...no info. I guess it's up to us to solve this, just like the handwarmers...nothing against anyone here, I love this site but I'm sick of this computer, SHOULD BE OUT RIDING!
apex yooper
Expert
exhaust removal
You guys have some good info here about a subject that we are on our own to solve.
The consensus seems to be that heat is the culprit. If that is true, why were ReX's 2 donuts still good. I wonder if the clamps were not installed properly at the factory. I am going to grind mine also. I am also leaning toward a bead of RTV in the clamp, but not on the donut.
I should be getting my donuts today from Port.
You guys have some good info here about a subject that we are on our own to solve.
The consensus seems to be that heat is the culprit. If that is true, why were ReX's 2 donuts still good. I wonder if the clamps were not installed properly at the factory. I am going to grind mine also. I am also leaning toward a bead of RTV in the clamp, but not on the donut.
I should be getting my donuts today from Port.
