EXUP Nytro for 2012?

[SledFreak]

With EXUP coming on the Apex for next year and the Nytro going into it's 4th model year, one would expect(hope) that changes are coming for 2012.

By adding EXUP, adding a knock sensor and bumping compression ( I think the Nytro is about 10.5:1 the Apex 12.5:1) I'm guessing we see a 145-155 Horse Nytro, which would put it back in the race with the 160 Hp 800CC two strokes.

I know that they are working on a Nytro with more HP, and previously thought it would have VVT, but with EXUP (poor mans version) you can get close to the same results.

Power steering would be nice but if they did add it I would like to see them work on weight reduction as well. As we know from the Aftermarket it's relatively easy to shave pounds on this sled.

Has anybody heard anything or any other logical speculation?

Adding to the list would be a nice guage package like on the Apex.....

 

[cacsrx1]

With EXUP coming on the Apex for next year and the Nytro going into it's 4th model year, one would expect(hope) that changes are coming for 2012.

By adding EXUP, adding a knock sensor and bumping compression ( I think the Nytro is about 10.5:1 the Apex 12.5:1) I'm guessing we see a 145-155 Horse Nytro, which would put it back in the race with the 160 Hp 800CC two strokes.

I know that they are working on a Nytro with more HP, and previously thought it would have VVT, but with EXUP (poor mans version) you can get close to the same results.

Power steering would be nice but if they did add it I would like to see them work on weight reduction as well. As we know from the Aftermarket it's relatively easy to shave pounds on this sled.

Has anybody heard anything or any other logical speculation?

Unless the bump the displacement or spin the thing to 12,000 RPM (which would add weight for the gear reduction) you will never see a 160hp Nytro. As for the EXUP, I was reading an article on the WR250X, from 3500rpm to the limiter at 11,500rpm it made over 10% more horsepower and torque across the board, without it. Maybe thats why everybody throws them in the dumpster.

 

[SledFreak]

With EXUP coming on the Apex for next year and the Nytro going into it's 4th model year, one would expect(hope) that changes are coming for 2012.

By adding EXUP, adding a knock sensor and bumping compression ( I think the Nytro is about 10.5:1 the Apex 12.5:1) I'm guessing we see a 145-155 Horse Nytro, which would put it back in the race with the 160 Hp 800CC two strokes.

I know that they are working on a Nytro with more HP, and previously thought it would have VVT, but with EXUP (poor mans version) you can get close to the same results.

Power steering would be nice but if they did add it I would like to see them work on weight reduction as well. As we know from the Aftermarket it's relatively easy to shave pounds on this sled.

Has anybody heard anything or any other logical speculation?

Unless the bump the displacement or spin the thing to 12,000 RPM (which would add weight for the gear reduction) you will never see a 160hp Nytro. As for the EXUP, I was reading an article on the WR250X, from 3500rpm to the limiter at 11,500rpm it made over 10% more horsepower and torque across the board, without it. Maybe thats why everybody throws them in the dumpster.

Ok, 10 percent more hp, but how much torque did it lose in that RPM range. I would rather have the torque on the bottom end, mid and hp at the top end.... If this is not the case and it loses torque as well, then why would Yamaha even bother to put it on....

 

[arteeex]

After peak torque is reached the derivative of the torque curve becomes negative and horsepower declines.

 

[sgilbert]

I'd like to see the "technology" in snowmobiles take a step back. Give me just enough electronics to run the ignition and fuel injection then go primitive on everything else. I'd rather not have the hand warmers running thru the ECU and a mechanical speedo would be just fine.

My sleds don't need power steering and servo motors on the exhaust or the weight and complexity it adds. The Apex didn't need power steering. It needed to lose 50-lbs so heavy steering was no longer an issue.

I'd bet the power steering alone added $1500 to the price of the Apex and contributed to some of the rise across the entire line-up. It would be nice if the same thing didn't happen to the Nytro in 2012.

I agree with you on the simplicity, however in the era of EPA mandated emissions, it's just not going to happen unfortunately.

Personally I would like Yamaha to give the option of EPS on sleds. You don't have to take it if you don't want it. However I think the Nytro would benefit more than the Apex due to the Nytro's more forward weight distribution. Coming into a low speed tight corner from high speed in the right conditions can mean very hard steering, basically all you can do is set the skiis to one position and wait, hard to correct mid corner. EPS will help to overcome that and allow us to easily run very aggressive aftermarket skiis. Probably worth the Extra 18 lbs, but then the Nytro would be getting way to close to 600.

As an added thought, I would also like to see them increase the Fuel tank size. I would extend it under the seat as much as i could - like the REV, moving the center of gravity lower and more rearward for a given amount of fuel, helping to offset added weight from EPS.

Another way to offset added weight from the EPS and higher Center of gravity would be to ditch the fan and rad and put more cooling in the tunnel, there is tons of room in there and MPI has had great success with there full length tunnel coolers.

Plus from the Factory I believe the Nytro is narrower than the maximum allowed trail width, make the A-arms wider and have adjustable Skiis where in the middle is max, or you can make it 1" wider or 1" narrower by moving the spacers on the bolt to one side. It would help the sled to corner flatter.

Finally, floats all around (SE's on the front) to shave some more pounds.

I agree with the weight thing, there's way's they can make it better. Like you stated I was thinking the same about the gas tank running under the seat like doo and not up height like it is now and maybe 8.5 gallon tank ( for me I wouldnt need or want bigger because of weight ) Coolant under the tunnel would help all around for ice build up ( more weight loose the ice ) and get rid of the radar, or maybe if the radar is really needed then put it down low up front like the poo has on the rush. with the gas and radar down low that would make it feel lighter not so top heavy. plus I don,t need power steering on the nytro that's just more weight, all you need to do is run a set of pilot ski with shaper bar's. most Nytro guy's don't realize the pilot's make these things steer really light. I just laugh every time I hear how hard they steer, because they don't with the right ski. And last 150+hp would be nice to

mine doesn't have radar, I have to keep up with my buddy to know where he is

 

[cacsrx1]

With EXUP coming on the Apex for next year and the Nytro going into it's 4th model year, one would expect(hope) that changes are coming for 2012.

By adding EXUP, adding a knock sensor and bumping compression ( I think the Nytro is about 10.5:1 the Apex 12.5:1) I'm guessing we see a 145-155 Horse Nytro, which would put it back in the race with the 160 Hp 800CC two strokes.

I know that they are working on a Nytro with more HP, and previously thought it would have VVT, but with EXUP (poor mans version) you can get close to the same results.

Power steering would be nice but if they did add it I would like to see them work on weight reduction as well. As we know from the Aftermarket it's relatively easy to shave pounds on this sled.

Has anybody heard anything or any other logical speculation?

Unless the bump the displacement or spin the thing to 12,000 RPM (which would add weight for the gear reduction) you will never see a 160hp Nytro. As for the EXUP, I was reading an article on the WR250X, from 3500rpm to the limiter at 11,500rpm it made over 10% more horsepower and torque across the board, without it. Maybe thats why everybody throws them in the dumpster.

Ok, 10 percent more hp, but how much torque did it lose in that RPM range. I would rather have the torque on the bottom end, mid and hp at the top end.... If this is not the case and it loses torque as well, then why would Yamaha even bother to put it on....

Motorcyclist magizines exact comment,"significantly more torque at 5000 rpm, right where you need it around town."

Take a look at any manufacturer (Akrapovic, Yosh, M4, Graves, etc) that builds a full header system for any Yamaha that deletes the EXUP. Look at their dyno charts, look on forums(people are always posting their charts), bikes are dynod 1000 times more often than sleds. No matter who the manufacturer the power curve will be about the same for every particular application. Bike dynos are on every steet corner compared to a sled dyno. This keeps the aftermarket performance part suppliers "more" true to their word vs. sleds. The Exup is not in there to make power.

Case and point. 04-06 R1s have a notorious dip in the torque curve at 7000 RPMs. This happen to be the same rpm the sound decibles are checked. With the exup in place the exup remains partially closed and the computer cuts fuel delivery by 10% from its 0 baseline across all throttle positions. Now add an aftermarket 4-2-1-2 exhaust(brand doesnt matter), they will ALL call for an additional minimum of positive 20% fuel from a zero baseline at the same 7000 rpm. Mine wanted a 37% total fuel increase at 50% throttle position. Add the fuel with the stock exhaust and you get alot of black smoke.

 

[SledFreak]

Soooooo, why is it there? To save on Fuel? EPA?

 

[Groomer08]

think

i think you guys are WAY ahead of yourselves.
your practically creating a NEW model.
All i want on a new nytro is
1. a better hood (tabs by gauges suck to line up with a windshield bag)
2. a skid that doesnt wear hyflexs out stock.(or comes with the big wheels i put on)
3. the stock exhaust to be a undertunnel for more storage behind the seat
4.simmons skis stock
5. taller stock windshield, and side deflectors should be standard too.
6. change the skidplate stiffeners to round or square stock, instead of the razor edged alum channel you use now!!(this could save a motor)

That would have saved me over a grand.

 

[loudelectronics]

I would like to see where people are getting the facts about YEPS from. Everyone thinks it added monsterous amounts of weight. I can guarantee that it did not add more then 5 lbs. The benefits of YEPS far out way the negative 5 lbs that it adds. You got to drive it to believe it. It will allow us to extend our driving capabilities on a sled. Drive faster, corner harder, safer!

I personally cant wait for it on a Nytro. Only issue is that it does add to the cost. I feel the snowmobile market is pricing them self's out like the way of the PWC. For instance PWC's used to be 10g. Then they jumped to almost 20. People figure, heck I can buy a boat for that price. So it shifts the mentality of the consumer into purchasing something different.

One thing though, do not want my sled wider. I think it is about right the way it is. Any wider and sidehilling and boondocking will be much more difficult.

Gas tank under the seat? I think that is a terrific idea. Been trying to figure out how to do that my self. A bigger tank to boot would be nice so i do not have to get towed by Doo's.

I am no expert on exhaust but I do not believe EXUP will work on a triple. All pistons fire at different rates so you have a smooth pulse of exhaust flow rather then two pistons fighting for the same hole. With a 4 cyl you have an on off effect like a single cylinder per say.

Whos with me on an under tunnel exhaust with gas tank under the seat? I think the seat could be a bit higher anyway.

One more thing about heavy stearing. Dropping weight does not mean lighter steering. Any one drobe a XP backcountry 800r? Steers like a mack truck with out PS. Pushes too! Need gorrilla arms for that thing.

 

[SledFreak]

I would like to see where people are getting the facts about YEPS from. Everyone thinks it added monsterous amounts of weight. I can guarantee that it did not add more then 5 lbs. The benefits of YEPS far out way the negative 5 lbs that it adds. You got to drive it to believe it. It will allow us to extend our driving capabilities on a sled. Drive faster, corner harder, safer!

I personally cant wait for it on a Nytro. Only issue is that it does add to the cost. I feel the snowmobile market is pricing them self's out like the way of the PWC. For instance PWC's used to be 10g. Then they jumped to almost 20. People figure, heck I can buy a boat for that price. So it shifts the mentality of the consumer into purchasing something different.

One thing though, do not want my sled wider. I think it is about right the way it is. Any wider and sidehilling and boondocking will be much more difficult.

Gas tank under the seat? I think that is a terrific idea. Been trying to figure out how to do that my self. A bigger tank to boot would be nice so i do not have to get towed by Doo's.

I am no expert on exhaust but I do not believe EXUP will work on a triple. All pistons fire at different rates so you have a smooth pulse of exhaust flow rather then two pistons fighting for the same hole. With a 4 cyl you have an on off effect like a single cylinder per say.

Whos with me on an under tunnel exhaust with gas tank under the seat? I think the seat could be a bit higher anyway.

One more thing about heavy stearing. Dropping weight does not mean lighter steering. Any one drobe a XP backcountry 800r? Steers like a mack truck with out PS. Pushes too! Need gorrilla arms for that thing.

I agree about the gas tank and the under tunnel exhaust for storage. However I do not want a taller seat.... I think the Nytro seating position is perfect. Maybe a little taller riser if anything.... Make the 3 banger a 1200 @15-160hp and I will be happy....

 

[Daranello]

HID's and undertunnel coolers to help the ice!

 

[loudelectronics]

I would like to see where people are getting the facts about YEPS from. Everyone thinks it added monsterous amounts of weight. I can guarantee that it did not add more then 5 lbs. The benefits of YEPS far out way the negative 5 lbs that it adds. You got to drive it to believe it. It will allow us to extend our driving capabilities on a sled. Drive faster, corner harder, safer!

I personally cant wait for it on a Nytro. Only issue is that it does add to the cost. I feel the snowmobile market is pricing them self's out like the way of the PWC. For instance PWC's used to be 10g. Then they jumped to almost 20. People figure, heck I can buy a boat for that price. So it shifts the mentality of the consumer into purchasing something different.

One thing though, do not want my sled wider. I think it is about right the way it is. Any wider and sidehilling and boondocking will be much more difficult.

Gas tank under the seat? I think that is a terrific idea. Been trying to figure out how to do that my self. A bigger tank to boot would be nice so i do not have to get towed by Doo's.

I am no expert on exhaust but I do not believe EXUP will work on a triple. All pistons fire at different rates so you have a smooth pulse of exhaust flow rather then two pistons fighting for the same hole. With a 4 cyl you have an on off effect like a single cylinder per say.

Whos with me on an under tunnel exhaust with gas tank under the seat? I think the seat could be a bit higher anyway.

One more thing about heavy stearing. Dropping weight does not mean lighter steering. Any one drobe a XP backcountry 800r? Steers like a mack truck with out PS. Pushes too! Need gorrilla arms for that thing.

I agree about the gas tank and the under tunnel exhaust for storage. However I do not want a taller seat.... I think the Nytro seating position is perfect. Maybe a little taller riser if anything.... Make the 3 banger a 1200 @15-160hp and I will be happy....

I guess it all depends on how tall you are. I am 6'3 and it feels like i am sitting in a hole. My hips are very sore if i am just trail riding for the day. Boondocking is no worry, but you never know what you are going to get around here for snow conditions. Even today went for about 50 miles and my hips were crying and were very sore to stand up.

 

[Alatalo]

Regarding EXUP, I have had a number of roadrace bikes and streetbikes on the dyno. The EXUP - and the similar devices from other motorcycle brands - have never, ever added torque and horsepower at any rpm of interest. There is possibly some addition at idle rpm and slightly above idle rpm, but it is really hard to tell since nobody runs the dyno at these low rpms (these rpms are way under clutch engagement rpm of a snowmobile anyway...).
In my opinion, the EXUP is a noise reduction device that some smartass decided to market as a performance enhancer. The reason it will be installed in the coming Apex has got absolutely nothing to do with performance. Instead, this is likely done because they are preparing the Apex for some coming environmental law changes OR in order to keep the low-rpm noise level down considering the slightly smaller silencer compared to previous model.
In my opinion, the EXUP is not the way to go when developing the FX Nytro. The FX Nytro needs to lose weight. Not add weight by non-performance related devices...

 

[morrisond]

The sound thing makes sense to me. This would allow them to run a noisier (i.e. Free-er flowing) exhaust to optimize the Top end HP, but the EXUP would allow them to get past the noise laws.

 

[Groomer08]

lol

so they just need to make the exup cheaper, so we can just toss it when we buy our sleds!! and bypass it for free flowing exhaust. DING! fries are done!
lmao.