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FAST M-20 Video Comparison on Apex and Attack


Thanks for the link Rich. I'm sure the M20 is a great suspension and Fast certainly makes good products. However, it looks like the stock suspension had the rebound damping turned all the way down and possibly the spring preload too. My Vector's mono skid seems to do much better than the one in the video. I did enjoy hearing Jeff Beck though. ;)!
 
Here's my comment from the Aftermarket Suspension section of this site where this video was first posted:

"That is exactly what I thought when I first watched this video...the Attak rider doesn't have his RA set appropriately to control the rebound (he is getting bucked off of his sled) and it looks like he doesn't have enough preload on his rear spring since the rear appears to be sitting rather low. I would also like to see a comparison between a Pionner valved Apex vs the Airwave. Plus, in the video Gerard says that the suspension on the Attak has a "falling rate" on the return stroke but that is wrong! The mono is a falling rate suspension on the compression stroke = rising rate on the return stroke!"
 
That was a cool video. Thanks for posting. I really liked seeing how the sleds reacted going through the bumps. The M-20 sled looked like a desert truck! I have suspicions that the stocker may not have been set up as well as it could have been, but the M-20 certainly looked impressive! I'd like to read some real world reviews from guys who run the M-20 rear skid.

I've got a 136 M-10 in my Vector and I've never been overly impressed with it for anything other than stutter bumps. I can see why it was so amazing in the early to mid 90's but I think the OEM skid caught up and pass it in terms of all around performance. The M-10 is very tunable but it also requires tuning for different conditions to obtain the best ride. You can call it finicky. I wonder if the M-20 is the same way?
 
Advertising is just like that. Making their own product look great and other not so great.

IMO with the right spring, preload and shimming the mono is just fine. Not a big bump skid, but good enough. And if a sled owner can´t tune in his suspension, I´m just sorry.

and I still believe that PPS on the Lynx snowmobiles is the best ride you can get in the rough trails.

http://www.brplynx.com/about-lynx/innovations.html

Ike
 
I recognize where the took the Video, about 2 miles from my house. The Lake in the background at the end of the first "test run" is one of my favorite Crappie holes.
 
Cool video! I love my M-10! once you get it dialed in to your weight it is an unbelievable ride! My wife has a mono but we are going to be replacing it with an M-10 or something newer possibly the M-20 depending on finances. That should be my project for next summer.
 
I went for a ride this morning and and paid attention to how my M-10 was working. In my experience, the M-10 has a narrower window of performance than an OEM skid. I can tune it to give an unbelievable ride through the stutters, but it will then bottom on the big stuff. Tune it for the big stuff and the ride suffers on the stutters and small stuff. I know this is the case for any suspension, but the M-10 doesn't appear to have the same broad range of capability as an OEM skid. I believe this is why we've seen the jack and the electronic jack from FAST to expand the performance envelope of the M-10.

The new airwave seems to be yet another effort to expand its performance window. I'd be really curious to see how many air pressure changes and tuning were required to get the skid to run as well as it did in the video. There is no denying the skid rode well. I'm just not sure if I believe that one setting would have it work that well. On a normal trail ride, a guy is going to encounter all the same bumps but is not going to stop and adjust air pressure and the rear shock angle to tune the skid for each section of trail. If that is not the case then I'd be impressed!
 
I agree 100% on the narrow performance window. You can expand it with carefull tuning (including valve stacks). You can actually get them working pretty well - for guys that use their sled for cruising.

From a performace sled perspective, because of the full time coupling, all the tuning in the world will not get the hole shot performance on par with most OEM suspensions. Then there's the loss of top end, usually amounting to 3-4+ mph on sleds capable of running tripple digits. They're an exellent skid - used for the purpose they're designed for/keeping the available performance window in mind. The performance available within the window is great, but the price you pay for that (no holeshot/loss of top end) will keep most performance oriented away. FWIW


AKrider said:
I went for a ride this morning and and paid attention to how my M-10 was working. In my experience, the M-10 has a narrower window of performance than an OEM skid. I can tune it to give an unbelievable ride through the stutters, but it will then bottom on the big stuff. Tune it for the big stuff and the ride suffers on the stutters and small stuff. I know this is the case for any suspension, but the M-10 doesn't appear to have the same broad range of capability as an OEM skid. I believe this is why we've seen the jack and the electronic jack from FAST to expand the performance envelope of the M-10.

The new airwave seems to be yet another effort to expand its performance window. I'd be really curious to see how many air pressure changes and tuning were required to get the skid to run as well as it did in the video. There is no denying the skid rode well. I'm just not sure if I believe that one setting would have it work that well. On a normal trail ride, a guy is going to encounter all the same bumps but is not going to stop and adjust air pressure and the rear shock angle to tune the skid for each section of trail. If that is not the case then I'd be impressed!
Click to expand...
 
Yep, the lack of transfer is annoying. I can feel the track spin instead of rocking backwards and grabbing traction. I'm going to buy some different coupling blocks and play with those but I'm not expecting a whole lot.

I've got the limiter sucked up in the front and haven't really noticed any speed loss. I know there are plenty of guys who have so I don't doubt it.

I'm just happy I bought the M-10 used as I'd be pretty bummed out if I bought it for retail. It was the least expensive way to turn my sled into a 136.
 
I liked my Original M10, Alot better than my stock Phazer II skid. I got one for 1/2 price when I worked there for a short time during High School.
 
AKrider said:
The new airwave seems to be yet another effort to expand its performance window. I'd be really curious to see how many air pressure changes and tuning were required to get the skid to run as well as it did in the video. There is no denying the skid rode well. I'm just not sure if I believe that one setting would have it work that well. On a normal trail ride, a guy is going to encounter all the same bumps but is not going to stop and adjust air pressure and the rear shock angle to tune the skid for each section of trail. If that is not the case then I'd be impressed!
Click to expand...

You can get the airwave with an onboard compressor and adjust on the fly. If I still have my Apex next winter, I'm leaning heavily towards getting one.
 
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