how to know if donuts are leaking

RobX-1 said:
Knowing the gas tank has to come off to access the exhaust donuts, that will be your first challenge of being able to start the sled while you have everything off. As for determining if they are bad other than a visual inspection, if they are real bad meaning there is hardly any donut material remaining, a telltale sign would be that your flex pipe/donut clamps are loose and can be spun.

View attachment 178315

The reason guys like copper donuts is that they will last much longer (ie. not deteriorate like the OEM ones) and just like the OEM ones, they too go on dry as you just slide them onto the flex joint.
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I read some post by a tech guy who said he saw were copper ate at the lips of the header pipe. And he always puts on OEM ones for his machine but will do copper for his customers. I got oem this time. They lasted near 7k now if it is what I'm thinking. It may be something else but I hope it's the beginning of donut issues. I am leaning towards a clamp is loose and giving the tin sound combined with the slight exhaust sound starting. I'll keep this post updated as I'm tearing into the machine tommorrow.
 
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Yeah, I read that too about some being leery to running cooper donuts but have also read where others have had the header lips crack with OEM ones as welll so who knows. Thought there might be a correlation between cooper donuts and titanium headers but have seen posts where they still crack with OEM donuts. IMO, it's how soon you detect/catch the donuts detoriating as they do act as a buffer between the flanges of the flex pipe and the flanges of the headers/EXUP. If the donuts are that bad, I could see the flanges getting damaged.
 
RobX-1 said:
Yeah, I read that too about some being leery to running cooper donuts but have also read where others have had the header lips crack with OEM ones as welll so who knows. Thought there might be a correlation between cooper donuts and titanium headers but have seen posts where they still crack with OEM donuts. IMO, it's how soon you detect/catch the donuts detoriating as they do act as a buffer between the flanges of the flex pipe and the flanges of the headers/EXUP. If the donuts are that bad, I could see the flanges getting damaged.
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I'll post back and maybe with some pictures of my 2016 xtx. WIfe has a 2013 with oem donuts and about 5500 miles. She rides smoother then me. Ha . Maybe hers will last alot longer. My Attaks had them fail around 4k and her Vector 2010 about 6k.
 
well I saw the Elephant. I took the 2016 vector xtx apart down to see the flex pipes and donuts,etc. The clamps were tight still. Couldn't hardly see the donuts in the seam. I think they must be fine? I was going to replace them anyway. This Vector seemed different then our 2010 which I did donuts just fine. This 2016 had the lower header bolts so low I couldn't figure how to get a socket on them. There is a try under them riveted to the frame. The 2007 Attaks and 2010 Vector was not like this at all. I gave up. I didn't want to deal with it. I took it to MOM"S of Manchester. Maybe it was a mistake to take it there. Besides that I have an idle issue and idler wheels to replace they can do. 76 yrs old and with a double bypass operation and no one to help me I saw the elephant.
At this point I wish I didn't buy or have to live with this 2016 now. I'm tempted to sell it and get a good low mileage 2010. Which rean fine for us for 10k miles until we sold it for a 13 with eps.
The picture doesn't show how bad the bolts are blocked. I'm sure a good tech can figure it out and or has the strength to do the job.
 

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I would have at least unloosen/removed one of the donut clamps to visually inspect the condition of the donut. If you go back and look at the image of mine, the area of the donut that was deteriorating was covered by the bands of the clamp. As for that bolt, I know with the ones I have done, I have always used a swievel socket extension and a short socket (ie. not a deep well). I also found that it is easier to get to those bolts when you remove each flex joint starting with the clutch side as doing so provides additional space. Once finished, just work backwards on installing the flex pipes starting with the last one removed.
 
RobX-1 said:
I would have at least unloosen/removed one of the donut clamps to visually inspect the condition of the donut. If you go back and look at the image of mine, the area of the donut that was deteriorating was covered by the bands of the clamp. As for that bolt, I know with the ones I have done, I have always used a swievel socket extension and a short socket (ie. not a deep well). I also found that it is easier to get to those bolts when you remove each flex joint starting with the clutch side as doing so provides additional space. Once finished, just work backwards on installing the flex pipes starting with the last one removed.
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I had a 3/8 in standed size drive socket didn't work. Unless they make special short ones. I also as you said used a swivel on the prior donut work on my other machines.
I was thinking of denting down the area in front but worried about the tray hitting the drive shaft below. Or cutting the area out slightly to allow a good 6 point to get on it. Then laying the insulation back down over the cut out. I wanted to get those pipes off to inspect them for cracks. Which I had on one other machine. Hard to see unless they're removed.
Also I did loosen a clamp but I hadn't moved the header pipe/muffler back. I saw how rusted the mounting bolts were and never drilled rivets before on the bracket. If I was younger I would of tried harder and probably would of gotten it done. You wouldn't believe some of the mechanic work I've done. I bet more involved work and more times then many here have. Enjoy your youth.
And again. This machine is different then the 2010 and 2007 Attaks I did with regard to the shield under the bolts that protects the drive shaft I guess.
 
CaptCaper said:
Enjoy your youth.
And again. This machine is different then the 2010 and 2007 Attaks I did with regard to the shield under the bolts that protects the drive shaft I guess.
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LOL, just turned 56 today so not sure how much youth I have left to enjoy; althought staying active at the gym does help. That and owning snowmobile lifts as working bent over or on my knees is my Achilles' heel.

Maybe the header bolt locations are dfifferen on the three cylinders as I have replaced the donuts on my '03 RX-1, '08 Apex and '18 Apex and had no issues accessing them. If anything, I think you were on the right track with bending the lip of that tray to get a better grip on the bolt would have worked and would not have adversely affected the jackshaft axle; the drive axle is lower down below it.
 
RobX-1 said:
LOL, just turned 56 today so not sure how much youth I have left to enjoy; althought staying active at the gym does help. That and owning snowmobile lifts as working bent over or on my knees is my Achilles' heel.

Maybe the header bolt locations are dfifferen on the three cylinders as I have replaced the donuts on my '03 RX-1, '08 Apex and '18 Apex and had no issues accessing them. If anything, I think you were on the right track with bending the lip of that tray to get a better grip on the bolt would have worked and would not have adversely affected the jackshaft axle; the drive axle is lower down below it.
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I wish I was 56. I believe the older you get the faster you fail. Were 20yrs apart. In 20 yrs you'll be my age. And I'll be 96? I doubt it. Riding still? Ha. would make the news.
I have a lift as well as hoists. And I can tell you the tray is different. On the 2010 Vector I changed them fine. No problems with some heat. No drilling rivets ... hung the suspension by the front bolts. My Attaks were fine. Your 18 Apex is a different motor. The pipes might be just a bit up some.
 
Made a small video how my Nytro shuts down after exhaust repair:


This one saa cheap to buy and I am doing little restauration work now.
 
Odd thing with that tray is that the parts schematic list the same part number for both years Vectors:

COVER, EXHAUST
8ES-14627-00-00

I wonder with it being newer that maybe it had more insulation and/or not as matted down making it look like the bolt couldn't be accessed.
 
RobX-1 said:
Odd thing with that tray is that the parts schematic list the same part number for both years Vectors:

COVER, EXHAUST
8ES-14627-00-00

I wonder with it being newer that maybe it had more insulation and/or not as matted down making it look like the bolt couldn't be accessed.
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I did pull the insulation back and tried that way. Maybe a real short socket if they make them and tap a dent for it to clear but leave enough for the drive shaft. This motor is new in 16 yamaha said. But how much on the outside who knows.
 
Yes, that part number for was #7 in the parts schematic and not #9:
Tray.JPG
 
RobX-1 said:
Yes, that part number for was #7 in the parts schematic and not #9:
View attachment 178354
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yeah that's the tray. Again. I never had an issue getting at those bolts on the previous machines. But If I was to try again I would make it work somehow. Probably look for specail short sockets and or force the sock down onto the tray and hope it doesn't touch the drive shaft which I don't think it would. Also cut a path from the edge of the tray back enough for a good socket to fit. They lay the insulation back. Maybe safer then banging it down. Also other bolts were worse then others. I tried the easiest first.

On a side note I hope the Yami dealer gets the cold idle straightened out as well as the donuts if they need to be done. Right now I'd love the sell it and get a 2010 or 2013 actually due to eps. My wifes 2013 is sweet.
 
I saw a photo of Apex headers. The bolts are at say 11 o'clock and 4 o'clock. Which looks combined with the style head easy to get to. My Vector is at 7 o'clock and 2 o'clock.
 
Correct, at least on my '08 Apex as I couldn't find a pic of when I did them on my '18, but yes, three of them are oriented that way but not the fourth and hence my suggestion of removing them one at a time to allow for more room to get to the bolts on the next one. The only 3 cylinder I owned was the Nytro but sold it before it ever needed exhaust donuts so wasn't sure if that the case with yours. Because of that one being oriented differently, it would be next to impossible to remove that flex joint first

Head.JPG
 
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