If you are thinking about upgrading your older apex/attak/ltx to a newer apex...

[Snowaddict]

I bought a 2014 XF9000 Limited 137" this year after coming off an 03RX-1 MTN. I really like the rider forward seating position and that is what pushed me to a Cat as I didn't like the seating position on my wife's '06 RTX and I still wanted good out of the box power. After putting 650 miles on the Cat, I miss the hell out of the sound of my Yamaha's, the instant snappy power, and the reliability as I've had problems with the Cat. I never gave a newer XTX a thought as I figured the seating position would be the same as the old ones. So my question is how does it compare to the Cat you had as I assume that was rider forward? The rider forward is super nice, but I'll take reliability back until Yamaha builds their own chassis sled. I am really glad I kept my RX-1, as I will most likely be selling my Cat, as the sled is greener on the other side, but the grass certainly is not.

Isn't that XF 9000 a turbo that has 177 hp? And you want to go to an Apex (no turbo & less hp?) Just curious because I am highly considering a Cat if the new yamaha isn't a turbo apex in a viper (or something similar ) chassis. I love my 06 Apex rtx, but I want a better ride that doesn't get beat by another brand stock sled. I rode my buddy's 15 Viper and liked the seating height/position, which made the transition to standing a breeze. The bottom end and mid range was great, but the top end flat out sucked.
Since you had the cat, can you discuss your concerns/dislikes?

 

[Smokum]

Isn't that XF 9000 a turbo that has 177 hp? And you want to go to an Apex (no turbo & less hp?) Just curious because I am highly considering a Cat if the new yamaha isn't a turbo apex in a viper (or something similar ) chassis. I love my 06 Apex rtx, but I want a better ride that doesn't get beat by another brand stock sled. I rode my buddy's 15 Viper and liked the seating height/position, which made the transition to standing a breeze. The bottom end and mid range was great, but the top end flat out sucked.
Since you had the cat, can you discuss your concerns/dislikes?

Yup. I bought it b/c I wanted rider forward and power, with the easy bolt on/tune ability to have 250+ hp on pump gas. The sled rides nice - I like the seating position for sure, especially for rough trails, as standing up is much easier. My back likes the sled LOL. It has power - a different power than an Apex though. The Apex feels a lot more torquey & snappy out of the hole and I really miss the sweet sound of the 4 holer. Don't get me wrong, once on top of the boost the Cat will pull an Apex all day, and from what I read with tune you can improve the low end. I also miss the engine breaking on the Apex - there is still some on the Cat but not like the Apex. I found that really helped to plant and rail the corners. I have the Cat dialed in now pretty well suspension wise, but on smooth twistys I could go faster with the Apex for sure.

My big reason for wanting to switch back is the issues I've had with the sled. I bought the sled as a left over/demo/rep sled so it had 400 miles on it. I have 2 trips under my belt w/ it and 650 miles.
- I blew a belt at 600 miles (not sure on the belt break-in/history as it was on it when I bought it). Pretty sure my clutch alignment is off to the long side (only way to find out is to buy a $260 aftermarket tool to align clutches as Cat's tools for the dealers are junk and they can't seem to get it right from the factory). I put on a longer aftermarket belt which has seemed to help so far as my clutch temps were cooler last trip (still hotter than a Yammi clutch any day though). Oh and a stock Cat belt is $210 - the after markets are ONLY $85 - that's only $35 more than I paid for my last factory Yammi belt, which has 3000+ miles and counting.
- My steering is sloppy and clicking. Apparently there is upgraded steering components that Cat sells to fix this seeing as the stock ones crack and break. Nice of them to sell us the fix instead of just giving it to us.
- My reverse works intermittently. Some sort of solenoid issue I guess. This sled is just as heavy as my RX-1 MTN so reverse is important.
- On my last trip north, I had over heating issues in 0* weather on trails that had 3" of 1 day old powder - conditions I would never have dreamed you could possibly have an overheating issue in, but after some research it sounds like that has happened to many.
- The hose clamps are cheap pieces of junk.
- The stock belt guard is a floppy piece of crap that is a PITA to get together.
- The fit and finish of the sled as a whole is no Yamaha.
- I have a wet seal where the oil line goes into the coolant tank (I assume it goes through for cooling purposes)
- To top it off, my brand new "better quality" Cat cover ripped at the seams on the way up on the last trip.

I have replaced exhaust gaskets, front end bushings, crappy bogey wheels, and some other things on the Yamaha's I've owned, but those issues come after 3000+ miles and some decent use, not under 1000 miles or right out of the box. Many of the guys with 12's & 13's had way more problems than I have had and have spent thousands for aftermarket parts to "fix" the problem. It seems Cat did better with the '14's & 15's out of the box as there hasn't been near as many with issues, but still far too many IMO, for sure with my sled.

All I know is that I will most likely not be riding the Cat next year. Hoping tomorrow is a good day for Yamaha and they bring out a redesigned Apex. If it is a Cat with an Apex motor, I'll be waiting a year to see how they do, as I don't trust the Cat chassis. If it is a brand new 100% Yamaha, it may be in my garage for next year. Otherwise, I'll probably go back to riding my old iron as at least it's paid for and I can ride it like I stole it and not worry about having issues.

I would spend some major time reading the Cat Turbo section and ProCross section on HCS before purchasing if I were you. I spent a fair amount of time reading and knew I was taking some risk buying this sled, but didn't think it would be this bad.

 

[Snowaddict]

Thanks for the info Smokum. Really makes a guy leary about a Cat. My brother has a 2010 Z1, which has never let him down yet. I believe he took it in once for something recalled, but it hadn't caused a problem prior. He's been trying to convert me the past few years. Also, was at a radar run last weekend & the Cat turbos were making me drool a little. I'm crossing my fingers for tomorrow, as the decision to jump ship may be a non factor.

 

[Smokum]

Thanks for the info Smokum. Really makes a guy leary about a Cat. My brother has a 2010 Z1, which has never let him down yet. I believe he took it in once for something recalled, but it hadn't caused a problem prior. He's been trying to convert me the past few years. Also, was at a radar run last weekend & the Cat turbos were making me drool a little. I'm crossing my fingers for tomorrow, as the decision to jump ship may be a non factor.

The Twin Spar and the ProCross is apples and oranges. Those sleds have the same motors and that's it. Many have had excellent luck with the Z1 but the Twin Spar chassis is 80-100 lbs heavier than the ProCross. It was pitched to me like riding a tank w/ a turbo, and I like my sleds a bit heavier as I'm a big guy. The Twin Spar also has the Diamond Drive, which didn't appeal to me due to the service they take and super expense if they break. All of my Cat concerns have pretty much become reality.

 

[Snowaddict]

The Twin Spar and the ProCross is apples and oranges. Those sleds have the same motors and that's it. Many have had excellent luck with the Z1 but the Twin Spar chassis is 80-100 lbs heavier than the ProCross. It was pitched to me like riding a tank w/ a turbo, and I like my sleds a bit heavier as I'm a big guy. The Twin Spar also has the Diamond Drive, which didn't appeal to me due to the service they take and super expense if they break. All of my Cat concerns have pretty much become reality.

More good information. Thanks. I knew the chassis were different, but figured the motor was pretty much the same. His sled seems to handle well & he corners without much effort. Figured a newer one would be even better. Seems you went to Cat for the same reasons I was considering. I don't want to get burned on poor quality & unreliability, which it sounds like you have. Maybe the Apex xtx is the way to go. I just really liked the ride on the Viper my buddy has. Such a let down on top end, however.

 

[Smokum]

More good information. Thanks. I knew the chassis were different, but figured the motor was pretty much the same. His sled seems to handle well & he corners without much effort. Figured a newer one would be even better. Seems you went to Cat for the same reasons I was considering. I don't want to get burned on poor quality & unreliability, which it sounds like you have. Maybe the Apex xtx is the way to go. I just really liked the ride on the Viper my buddy has. Such a let down on top end, however.

Yup, I took the leap of faith and so far have fallen on my face. I'm intrigued by the XTX info as it would get me back most of what I want I think. I wish I had looked more into it before, but I made the typical assumption and wrote it off. 130 h.p. hasn't been enough for me ever, so it was never an option. 180 was starting to get there, but the 250+ with rider forward is what really hooked me in.

 

[cat hunter]

Thanks for the info Smokum. Really makes a guy leary about a Cat. My brother has a 2010 Z1, which has never let him down yet. I believe he took it in once for something recalled, but it hadn't caused a problem prior. He's been trying to convert me the past few years. Also, was at a radar run last weekend & the Cat turbos were making me drool a little. I'm crossing my fingers for tomorrow, as the decision to jump ship may be a non factor.

My friend 2 weeks ago bought a new 2014 turbo cat and first ride out 36 miles chain case broke and was at the dealer for a week!!! That is why I drive a Yamaha because I never lost a weekend of riding with my 06 GT with over 18,000 miles on it !!!