LETS TALK CLUTCHING TURK

[Ted Jannetty]

I have seen your posts over the years on Amsnow and here, I respect your experience with clutching and would like to discuss some items.

03 RX1 comes with pink secondary spring, .237 wire 5 1/8 coils
04 RXWarrior comes with White spring .237 wire 5 1/2 coils
Everyone uses Silver secondary spring .217 wire 4 3/4 coils

The above stock springs seem to work fine so why change?
Why go to a thinner wire diameter and lose side pressure in favor of twist?

I would think that the thinner wire might be good for drag racing on glare ice where drag is at a minimum, this would provide the best upshift.

The heavier springs should be used for trail or cross country type racing where snow conditions vary widely and backshift is more important.

Also if your starting out with different amount of coils are you really twisting the degrees indicated?
My feeling is your not.

I saw another post here where a guy was complaining about belt slippage with the silver spring in his conditions, this stands to reason if the silver spring has less side pressure, maybe we can suggest he go back to the stock secondary spring and retune his Heavy Hitters.

My experience in clutching is always been Ski Doo and I have become very good at it and I don't think that Yamahas are that much different, other than becoming familiar with the availble parts and a good starting point, all the principals are the same.

If you reduce side pressure you gain upshift and loose back shift and belt squeeze, then you have to compensate with a lower finish number helix.

If you increase spring pressure you raise engagment and loose belt squeeze in favor or higher rpm upshift.

Same goes for lighter weights.

Although I think the Heavy Hitters have a distinct advantage in that you can tune all ranges without ruining ramp after ramp.

Why can't we pick a helix for agressive trail say 50-40 with stock white spring, and stock YSY primary and do all our tuning with the Heavy Hitters.

Then for Lake Racing go to a 55-45 and retune our Heavy Hitters.

Then there are the Rollers, in my eyes just another tuning tool that we really don't need to fool with.

I know smaller increases force and larger decreases force by changing the angle of the arm at any given shift ratio.

It seems that everyone is looking for that magical clutch kit the will go like hell in the trails and on the lake and as far as I am concerned it doesn't exist.
I think we have to make everyone realize this, you need two clutch setups and must be willing to change them out when you get off the trail and get on the lake.

This is what I used to do with my Turbo 670, I had two different clutches and would pop off the trail and install the lake clutches.

Heavy Hitters, I have limited experience but with 2 RX models I will gain it quickly, I am running for a starting point this year 48.5 base 3/4 and 1/4 allens 4.2 grams heel, 7/16 steel w/thick washer 5.6 grams middle and 7/16 steel bolt 4.2 grams tip.

I saw you said somewhere that you like less tip weight than in middle, this is also what I found can you elaborate?


I look forward to a lengthly discussion.

 

[Turk]

Nice post!!!! For sledding & clutching you really can not have your cake & eat it too. A clutching set-up for trail riding will backshift well but work mediocre for drag racing. A drag race set up will suck huge for trail riding & get ya big time stuck in deep snow. For racing you want small primary spring, small rollers, lotsa weight, just enuff secondary spring & same for helix. For trail riding you need medium amounts of everything listed above with out getting to technical. The rx is a way different animal & needs a lot more secondary pressure due to the torque it generates right thru the whole shift. I have never seen any Yamaha sled need the amount of secondary tension as the rx-1 needs & likes. Anyway Yamaha in it,s wisdom decided on a huge flat primary weight & a secondary spring with mega side pressure. When loaded to run proper rpm,s it works pretty decent but you can really gain down low & mid by changing a few things. Actuallly for ice racing you need more secondary spring cus with pics you hook hard & need to slow the upshift. On snow the traction ain,t near as great & you can back off on the secondary spring.As far as running less tip weight i like to run a helix with a real shallow finish angle. This gives me lotsa belt squeeze down low & good top end with out a lot of tip weight cus i need it in the heel & mid. This really makes the clutches run cooler & more efficient. This post was written under the influence & may be changed at a later date!!!

 

[Ted Jannetty]

OK so what would you suggest for a base line set up, soup to nuts on an RX1?
Or Warriror.
For aggressive trail.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the Torque produced through the shift curve requires more side pressure, this is why I don't understand why everyone is using this Silver Secondary spring on the RX1.
And I really didn't realize this untill I put them on the bench side by side and measured them, I never had anything to compare it to.

I have known for years that the silver spring works great on SRX and such a freind raced one on the grass for 2 seasons and I went to a few races with him to help out.

I think the springs that come on the RX1 are ok and the Heavy Hitters give us almost all the tuning we need and can fine tune with a helix after we get the RPM spot on.

Correct me if I am wrong here Please.

 

[low flying missile]

silver secondary

The lower rate of the silver allows you to increase belt squeeze down low where you need it by increasing the twist. The low rate prevents side pressure from rising too high as the shift proceeds and preventing full shift out. There may be an issue of coil binding with the thicker wire preventing full shift as well.