Lithium ion Battery...please read

[fatchance]

Just wanted to add a quick note here on the topic. While reading aged posts on the subject I was concerned that Shorai had changed the specs on their batteries recently.
After going on the Shorai site I noticed that all the LFX batteries have a BMS, but operating temp info was vague. I reached out to the company and this is what I was told.


"The BMS does not contain a cold weather cutoff and under cranking loads it allows essentially 100% of capacity to be used. The BMS was first employed in mid 2022 and we have had no complaints about decreased cold-weather performance (nor would we expect any, given the programming)

It is mainly there to protect from very low, long term drain from parasite loads.

Shorai Service"

So while the company has recently added the BMS they did not limit operating temps for cold weather.

 

[Doc Harley]

Just wanted to add a quick note here on the topic. While reading aged posts on the subject I was concerned that Shorai had changed the specs on their batteries recently.
After going on the Shorai site I noticed that all the LFX batteries have a BMS, but operating temp info was vague. I reached out to the company and this is what I was told.


"The BMS does not contain a cold weather cutoff and under cranking loads it allows essentially 100% of capacity to be used. The BMS was first employed in mid 2022 and we have had no complaints about decreased cold-weather performance (nor would we expect any, given the programming)

It is mainly there to protect from very low, long term drain from parasite loads.

Shorai Service"

So while the company has recently added the BMS they did not limit operating temps for cold weather.

This doesn't pertain to me personally, as I ride mostly in 20°f. And purchased an Earthx battery last season.
Yes, the battery will use all of its available power to start your sled. But can it be charged in -30°f??
There in lies the question, that honestly has never been answered, to my knowledge.

 

[max rolph]

Im Guessing here that they are saying, their BMS is only for low voltage drain.... most other companies BMS is for low temp charging and will not allow it.. this then blows the voltage regulator on the sled.... found out the hard way!!! NOCO.... great battery in ATV and SEADOO.... not anything that operates at -10 and below.....

 

[fatchance]

This doesn't pertain to me personally, as I ride mostly in 20°f. And purchased an Earthx battery last season.
Yes, the battery will use all of its available power to start your sled. But can it be charged in -30°f??
There in lies the question, that honestly has never been answered, to my knowledge.

Yes as the BMS essentially ignores the temp value.

 

[fatchance]

On a side note, I installed the Shoria in my Yami GP1800R and if anybody chooses to use this battery in their PWC do yourself a favor and put threaded studs into the battery terminals!!!! Saves allot of curse words trying to reach into that tight engine bay with a bolt that is barely long enough to thread into the terminal boss.

P.S. I might actually go this route with the battery when it's in the sled because at this point with all the electrical connections it would make life easier.

 

[Doc Harley]

This topic reminds of the many Tesla owners (with their $20,000 batteries) left stranded over the winter, here in Chicago.
Don't believe me, ask Trump....

 

[Turboflash]

FWIW - I just installed a brand new Shorai LFM24A3-BS12 (CCA listed at 360). I also purchased a new NOCO Genius 10 charger which is designed for LiFe batteries. I msde sure my new battery was fully charged.
First trip was this past week. Temps were -5 to -7F at night.
My sled did start but it cranked very slowly at first. After a couple crank sessions (approx 4-5 secs), it started cranking faster. I guess that means the cranking draw on battery was "waking it up?" Sled started and the charging voltage was normal. I will say my friends' sleds (TCats) both cranked noticeably faster than mine. They both have 320 CCA AGM lead acid batteries.
So far, I'm not impressed with this new Shorai battery. Especially since it is supposedly 360CCA.

 

[KnappAttack]

FWIW - I just installed a brand new Shorai LFM24A3-BS12 (CCA listed at 360). I also purchased a new NOCO Genius 10 charger which is designed for LiFe batteries. I msde sure my new battery was fully charged.
First trip was this past week. Temps were -5 to -7F at night.
My sled did start but it cranked very slowly at first. After a couple crank sessions (approx 4-5 secs), it started cranking faster. I guess that means the cranking draw on battery was "waking it up?" Sled started and the charging voltage was normal. I will say my friends' sleds (TCats) both cranked noticeably faster than mine. They both have 320 CCA AGM lead acid batteries.
So far, I'm not impressed with this new Shorai battery. Especially since it is supposedly 360CCA.

That’s the drawback with a lightweight lithium when it’s that cold. You have to put a draw on them to warm them and get them to come to life. They don’t have the voltage or initial amperage like a regular battery in the cold. Turn the key on to for the lights or run a fan or anything to warm them up. Nothing new here and most people with a lithium already know this.

 

[REDLINE 1]

FWIW - I just installed a brand new Shorai LFM24A3-BS12 (CCA listed at 360). I also purchased a new NOCO Genius 10 charger which is designed for LiFe batteries. I msde sure my new battery was fully charged.
First trip was this past week. Temps were -5 to -7F at night.
My sled did start but it cranked very slowly at first. After a couple crank sessions (approx 4-5 secs), it started cranking faster. I guess that means the cranking draw on battery was "waking it up?" Sled started and the charging voltage was normal. I will say my friends' sleds (TCats) both cranked noticeably faster than mine. They both have 320 CCA AGM lead acid batteries.
So far, I'm not impressed with this new Shorai battery. Especially since it is supposedly 360CCA.

When it’s that cold you have to remove the battery and take it inside for the night if u don’t have a warmer garage to keep it in. It’s the nature of the beast unfortunately. I made up a battery warmer with some heating pads I bought off amazon but haven’t had a chance to test it yet. Thought was it would wake the battery up while warming it at the same time

 

[STAIN]

Can you just leave the key in the "ON" position and let it run the roll over valve heater for a minute or so?

 

[74Nitro]

I have this battery also that is now five years old. At -20 celcius my sled cranks over slow, old tractor like, but surprisingly still fires up.
I'm going to replace it soon. I'll try a higher power different brand lithium.

 

[Doc Harley]

I fought with this group a few times in this regard. Lithium ion (lifepo4) is not made to work at 100% below 32°. Can't even imagine how it's doing at -10°. Dont care what the manufacturers claim.

 

[Doc Harley]

So this is what I'm working on. Do not have supporting data. Please, let's not make negative comments if you don't understand.

 

[KnappAttack]

I ran an older Shorai LFX18 smaller battery version for 8 years before I killed it, should say when the dam GAP flasher killed it with its draw on the system. I now have the LFX24 and its doing just fine although I warm them up prior to starting with key on to fire the headlight and the O2 sensor heating element. On my old 1200 Doo I would warm the 18 with a fan I ran on the clutches. Warm them up with a draw and they fire up like a normal battery. Otherwise trying to start a couple of times also warms the battery. I've started the old 1200 up at -36F before when we were up north using the 18, and I know the CCA on the 18 is 270 CCA, so the 24 is up at 360 CCA, although I'm not sure that makes much of a difference in reality on a lithium in the cold. It's all about waking the lithium up and getting a draw on it and warming and waking it up, does not matter how you achieve this initial draw, just get a draw on it first and it will start normally and do just fine. If you don't warm it and wake it up, it will roll the engine slowly at first attempt, each successive attempt will improve the cranking speed as we know.

When I first tried the 18 on the 1200 the first year, it didn't want to start well, took a couple three attempts, once I started running my clutch fan for a few minutes prior to staring it did great. Lithiums work just fine knowing you need to wake the battery in the cold. Just dont ever buy a lithium with BMS that shuts the battery down in the cold temps. I have a NOCO lithium I run in my motorcycle, but you can't use it in the cold as it literally shuts off at like 25F. Which is a shame because the NOCO is a really nice lithium battery, probably the best lithium out there IMO. So make damn sure you use the right lithium battery that does't shut off at a certain temp or you have all kind of troubles! Only two I know of is the Shorai and the EarthX cold/snowmobile version. The Banshee lithium is an unknown, I have a friend that claims his 998's fires up fine on it at -30F, but when I contacted the people selling the Banshee lithium, they told me they have BMS that protects them in the cold, hence the reason I bought another Shorai. Not sure thought that the Banshee sales person I talked with really knows if they put off in the cold, because my friends sure doesn't shut off at all. It spins the 998 over like a normal battery would without even waking them up, but it is a 500CCA lithium battery too, so maybe CCA does matter.

 

[STAIN]

i just got this email from BRS battery today

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[td] Hey, You know that moment. You pull your trailer up to the trail you’ve been thinking about all week. You unload your sled. Your gloves are on. Everyone’s ready. You turn the key… hit the start… …and it doesn’t fire. Maybe it cranks slow. Maybe it clicks. Maybe it does that thing where it almost goes… and then nothing. And instantly your brain goes from “today’s going to be epic” to “please don’t let me be that guy.” No one posts that part on Instagram. That exact moment is why we’re a little obsessive about batteries in cold weather. Because here’s the honest truth: Lithium can be awesome. We’re not anti-lithium. But once it gets properly cold, we’ve seen lithium setups become… unpredictable. Not always. Not for everyone. But enough that it’s a pattern. What we’ve found after testing batteries in real cold​ In freezing temps, a lot of lithium batteries: need a “warm-up” before they deliver their best power can show decent voltage, but fall flat when you load them sometimes go into protection mode when it’s too cold That protection is good engineering. But when you’re standing there on the trailer ramp, watching everyone else take off, it doesn’t feel like “engineering.” It feels like your day is getting cancelled.​

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[td] Why AGM keeps winning in winter AGM is the boring choice. Which is exactly why it’s the dependable choice. A good solid AGM powersports battery is generally: more forgiving in the cold more consistent under cranking load less sensitive to those “surprise” winter conditions ​

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[td] If you ride in real winter, and your #1 requirement is “it has to start”… AGM is usually the safer bet. And if your machine sits between rides, there’s one extra step that makes a huge difference: A smart maintainer (so the next start isn’t a coin toss)​ Set it up once, and it keeps your battery topped up while it sits. Here are the two links if you want to lock this down: 1. Shop AGM powersports batteries (ATV / Snowmobile / Motorcycle / UTV) --> Find Your Battery Here <-- 2. Grab a smart maintainer (set-and-forget storage charging) --> Find Your Maintainer Here <-- If you want, just hit reply and tell me what you’re riding (make/model/year) + the temps you deal with, and I’ll point you to the best-fit AGM option. — Andy BRS Battery P.S. If you’ve got a ride coming up soon, don’t wait until the morning-of to find out your battery was barely hanging on. (That lesson is always expensive.)​

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