LOOK WHAT I FOUND OUT TODAY ABOUT MY RX-1 MOUNTAIN OVERHEAT

[smokeless1]

Today, I took a holiday and stayed home to work on my Mountain. I installed the shut-offs to the carb, shut-off to the coolant line to the carbs, an engine temp guage, and the rear heat exchanger.

As I drained some of the coolant into a milk jug, I looked at it as if it were the first time I had ever seen such heavy green fluid so thick coming out of a coolant line.

I grabbed my simple density checker (coolant condition indicator) and sucked a cup of the stuff up into the checker.

It was OFF THE CHART. My checker max's out at -84 degrees and it was pegged at that point.

I grabbed my cell phone and called my dealer. I asked him if the sleds came with coolant in them or if they had to add the coolant. He said they come from the factory with coolant but that sometimes they have to add some ecspecially if they need burping.

I told him that MINE had come with nearly no water in the coolant. He said that they never check the density of the fluid and assume that the factory has done the right mix.

Obviously, if the mix isn't right this could easily cause over heat issues.

Mix should be 50/50 or at most 60/40. Now I wonder how many others out there have coolant that isn't right. So

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND PICKUP A COOLANT CHECKER AND SEE WHAT YOURS HAS IN IT, IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING OVER HEAT ISSUES.

One more thing. My dealer fresh off a seminar said that yamaha doesn't recommend using automotive coolant because it contains too much silicate and phosphate in it. Yamaha recommended antifreeze is lower in both those materials. I asked him if the new stuff that gm puts in their cars (dex-cool) wouldn't be a better bet, since it is completely clear of both silicate and phosphate because of issues messing up head gaskets and corrosion of aluminum with the ethalglychol antifreeze. He said that if was his machine he would change it over "yesterday"

I drained mine out completely and switched it over today.

I did this on my machine and I am willing to bet money that my friends unit wil show the very same quantities of glychol and nearly no water.

See if this helps on your overheating machine.

BTW after doing the switch and adding the heat exchanger, sitting on the trailer, I could NOT make it over heat. NO SNOW, NO ICE SCRAPERS AND NOTHIN BUT GOOD OLD 40 DEGREE TEMPS. I shut it down after a twenty minute idle....205 degrees, well below the 220 flashin light temp.

 

[Mighty]

The wierder the problem the simpler the solution :ORC

I don't buy the claims that the orange/red coolant is better than the good ol green stuff. A few years back I bought a factory official suburban with about 30,000 miles. A sledding buddy that happened to be a service manager for a big GM dealer told me to drain the coolant ASAP, flush the system and put the green stuff back in. He said GM had sent a memo out telling the service departments to start changing the coolant at 50K instead of the 150k it was suppose to go. Apparently it doesn't (didn't at the time, maybe it's better now) have the corrosion protection properties that lasts as long as the green stuff. Clumps of corrosion was plugging the cooling system :shock:

I did flush the system and did find clumps in the coolant

 

[Convert]

Congrats smokeless1 sounds like you have discovered why some do and some don't! It will be interesting to see how many others check this out and find they have the same problem. thanks for the update!

 

[VT_BluYamaha54]

Re: LOOK WHAT I FOUND OUT TODAY ABOUT MY RX-1 MOUNTAIN OVERH

One more thing. My dealer fresh off a seminar said that yamaha doesn't recommend using automotive coolant because it contains too much silicate and phosphate in it. Yamaha recommended antifreeze is lower in both those materials. I asked him if the new stuff that gm puts in their cars (dex-cool) wouldn't be a better bet, since it is completely clear of both silicate and phosphate because of issues messing up head gaskets and corrosion of aluminum with the ethalglychol antifreeze. He said that if was his machine he would change it over "yesterday"

I drained mine out completely and switched it over today.

I did this on my machine and I am willing to bet money that my friends unit wil show the very same quantities of glychol and nearly no water.

See if this helps on your overheating machine.

BTW after doing the switch and adding the heat exchanger, sitting on the trailer, I could NOT make it over heat. NO SNOW, NO ICE SCRAPERS AND NOTHIN BUT GOOD OLD 40 DEGREE TEMPS. I shut it down after a twenty minute idle....205 degrees, well below the 220 flashin light temp.

****DON'T DO IT!!!!****

BEWARE: Before anyone thinks about changing their coolant to "DexCool" do some research!!
Our Chevrolet Venture minivan with the 262ci(?) V-6 had some issues with losing coolant and problems with head gaskets. GM actually redesigned the head gasket in response to coolant issues induced by DexCool. I found some very interesting information about DexCool actually being the CAUSE of many of these problems with GM engines. Do yourself a BIG favor and check your favorite internet search engine for "DexCool Lawsuit". You will be glad you did!!

The link for an ongoing Class Action Lawsuit is listed below. Happy researching!!

Believe me!

http://www.cwcd.com/CM/ClassActions/ClassActions35.asp

 

[Riceburner]

Smokeless,

Thanks for your post. Very interesting info.
I wonder how many out there might have the wrong antifreeze mixture.
I will check mine this weekend.
Glad you have everything running as cool in your Riceburner as you do in your Cats.
I wonder how much of your problem was the wrong antifreeze and how much was the lack of the rear cooler?

Regarding your other post re your dissappointment with Yamaha vs the other manufacturers, it is interesting the different experiences that different people have with different manufacturers.

My worst experience was with Polaris with my 96 Ultra. It had a half dozen recalls or so plus I had to pay about $400 of my own money to get it ridable in a decent fashion. Polaris would not take my calls, return my calls or answer my queries through the dealer. Sent me a letter to "park it"due to a safety issue and then no parts to fix said issue untik after the season. Never a Polaris for me again.

Cat I will agree comes to the party and pays. The issue with them is that you can't trust them to build a sled that will get you home a lot of the time.
Then you likely cant get parts cuz everyone needs them, [ie 580 jugs in the mid 90's and the 98 600 ZR fiasco] So yep, they pay, but you may have either missed a good portion of the season waiting for your free parts or got stranded and needed a tow. They also have the ability to take some of their excellent creations and screw them up. [ 800 Triples and T-Cats ] had great performance for years, then they screwed them up. WTF was up with that? Had 3 Cats. I loved to ride them but way too much down time for me. I guess I should have clewed in when I blew up my first one in the first twelve miles.

Ski-doo I had pretty good luck with but had to re-jet my carbs completely with my 94 STX to get decent performance or mileage. They were like Polaris, would not return calls and I had to pay. Now we have the Series 3 Engine problems which I hear on other sites that they refuse to admit too.
That is way more serious than having to put some snow on the running bords because someone screwed up our antifreeze. IMHO

Yamaha has been the best by far with me. Every time I have made a query to them, I get a response usually in 24 hours. 8 sleds in the last 6 years 60,000 km and never a problem that needed repair right away.
Yamaha paid for clutching time and parts to get rid of the over-rev on one of my 700's. They rebuilt my waterpump no charge and paid the dealer to pull and reinstall the engine to do it. This sled was 2 years out of warranty.
As a matter of fact other than the waterpump on the 01 700 deluxe the only other thing on all those sleds was 2 rear skid bearings.

I brought up the issue of my hot Warrior to Yamaha through my dealer and they are replacing my boots and are supplying the rear exchanger and 1 hour shop time for the install. I offered to participate since the Warrior was a first year sled. Dealer is chewing the extra shop time for the install. My cost, 0.

I find this to be very responsive on their part and commend them fully.


Sorry your experience was not as good.

Glad you like your sled and got your problem resolved for not too much money. Certainly way less than I had to spend on my Polaris.

Thanks again for the antifreeze info,

Dave

 

[Yakuza]

Hi BC, glad to hear you solved the problem. I'm sure you'll inform us as to what excuse Yamie will have say.

 

[VT_BluYamaha54]

Re: LOOK WHAT I FOUND OUT TODAY ABOUT MY RX-1 MOUNTAIN OVERH

As I drained some of the coolant into a milk jug, I looked at it as if it were the first time I had ever seen such heavy green fluid so thick coming out of a coolant line.

I grabbed my simple density checker (coolant condition indicator) and sucked a cup of the stuff up into the checker.

It was OFF THE CHART. My checker max's out at -84 degrees and it was pegged at that point.

I grabbed my cell phone and called my dealer. I asked him if the sleds came with coolant in them or if they had to add the coolant. He said they come from the factory with coolant but that sometimes they have to add some ecspecially if they need burping.

I told him that MINE had come with nearly no water in the coolant. He said that they never check the density of the fluid and assume that the factory has done the right mix.

Obviously, if the mix isn't right this could easily cause over heat issues.

Mix should be 50/50 or at most 60/40. Now I wonder how many others out there have coolant that isn't right.

Smokeless - Sorry to burst your bubble (and others hoping this was the "fix") BUT:

-84F on the tester equates to a 70% antifreeze/water mix WHICH IS WITHIN SPEC per the information on any antifreeze manufacturer's mixture charts. I've pasted the info about concentration directly from the Prestone site below FYI.

Q: What is the best antifreeze/coolant concentration for a vehicle? Can I use 100% antifreeze?
A: We recommend that you use between a 50% and 70% concentration of antifreeze. At least 50% is necessary to give the adequate amount of corrosion protection, as well as freeze/boilover protection. However, we do not recommend more than 70% antifreeze. This would cause restriction of the heat transfer capabilities, corrosion protection, and freeze protection. The concentration of freeze/boilover protection of the antifreeze mixture can be checked using a Prestone® Antifreeze Coolant Tester.

 

[BLACK RX1]

i checked my coolant -37
was melting boots alot but light only came on once or twice
i had to always keep stopping and pack snow on the running boards
i put on the new rear cooler saturday rode frisby at revy today it ran a lot cooler i mean a lot cooler and the weather was hot :lol:
i think it is fixed
see ya

 

[xcsp]

Dexcool-VT_BluYamaha54

How recent is the info on that link for the Dexcool? I've heard alot about the Dexcool problems also. I personally would NEVER use that coolant in a sled or motorcycle!! Have a year-old GM truck and plan to swap out the Dexcool soon. Rather change coolant more often than have engine problems!!

 

[rx1mtn]

I just assumed that if someone was having an overheating problem, you would check the coolant level AND the density along with the ph.
With my perticular situation I had to add water the 1st time it overheated. I lost almost 1 full qt. I then drained and readded 60-40 mix back in, with Yamaha coolant. When I drained the coolant I did not notice any clumps or thick coolant. That way I knew there were no air blockage. By the way, I do know that the automobile manufacturers use an anti leak compound in the coolant systems of there vehicles that is added when the coolant is put into sytem at the factories.
I know that this is off the sledding subject, but I didn't know about the Dex-Cool situation.
I do know that some Ford dealers are selling coolant flush to their truck customers because the coolant looks brown. But the coolant from the factory IS gold, and when mixed, it does look brown. So if you own a late model Ford truck, don't change the coolant just because it looks brown, check the ph.

 

[Pinball Wizzard]

Do not mix dex-cool and green antifreeze it will turn to a gue that will plug everything. If you need a low silicate use the green anti-freeze designed for diesels. Flush that red stuf out and go green.

 

[smokeless1]

Riceburner-

I know all sled companies have issues. It is good to hear about issues others, such as yourself have had with them, so we can all be aware of them and can deal with them effectively.

Unfortunately, tho yammie has agreed to fix your sled, they have refused to acknowledge the design flaw they obviously have with these sleds and have to date, designed a fix for the problem, provided the cooler for it and have put these coolers on the 05 models. As far as I am concerned that is enough evidence to suggest that they do know of the trouble but are just hanging many of us out to dry by not fixing it at the dealer level.

In my view that isn't smart. Wishing a problem away isn't going to help, and I guess the message it sends to me, at least, is that they don't need my business.

I have had good luck with my articats so far and all these issues that they had were taken care of by recall or dealer repairs under warrantee.

Having just purchased a switchback, I will let you know how polaris is doing.

VT-

I didn't say that my coolant was set at -84 degrees. I said it pegs on the measuring device at tha temp. I assume it was well beyond that mark and could have been 80,90, or 100% coolant which as your article points out from whoever it was you quoted, will not cool effectively, and will not protect adequately against freeze. My machine isn't stored in the Northwest territories. It is used in Michigan. I don't need a mix beyond
-35 degrees f. EVER. And of course, the more water up to 50/50 will transfer the heat better.

Pinball-

I will check out the low silicate diesel stuff. Didn't know about it. I do know that the following is true about dexcool.

A) It was researched and designed because the green based glycol was chewing up the aluminum head gaskets of the very thin walled cylinders in the modern GM engines. Corrosive effects were major with the green stuff with as little as 12,000 miles on the stuff.

B) If you switch to Dexcool, (and btw, there are about 4 different derivitives of this brand, so you shouldn't mix this stuff with other Dexcool type coolants) you should thoroughly flush the system. Absolutely none of the old green should be present when you start adding. I flush and drain and flush and drain until nothing but clean clear water flows from the system.

C) Like anything else, including spark plugs, you can let them go longer but to change it is pretty easy and depending upon the mileage, you should flush all coolants about every third year or so.

D) Never use tap water to add to DEXCOOL. The solids that are described in lawsuits is in part caused by people who add heavy mineral waters to the coolant to mix it and that caused solids to form, which can plug up the cooling system in cars and trucks. Since that isn't the type of cooler on the sleds, I presume this might not be so important, but I USED, AND WILL CONTINUE TO USE $.84 GALLONS OF DISTILLED WATER. I use that in my batteries too.

The Dexcool coolant was designed for Aluminum engines, and all the aluminum components that are being used in automotive engines. Only thing that I worry about is the head gaskets which can become corroded ESPECIALLY SINCE THE SLED SITS FOR 9 MONTHS BETWEEN RUNS. This is when the corrosive effects are going to be decisive. So ...

Run what you want in your machine. I have had good luck with Dexcool, and I only use distilled water in the fill bottle. No matter what even Yammie suggests using a low silicate based coolant. I would NOT use the green stuff that comes off the shelf at pepp boys.

 

[VT_BluYamaha54]

I will stand by my recommendation to all TYer's to steer clear of DexCool because of all that I found out during my problems with a GM vehicle. It has NOTHING to do with anything EXCEPT the coolant.
Like I said, there are MANY discussion groups out there overflowing with DexCool (and its lookalikes) caused problems. If anyone wants more info, PM me and I will be glad to provide links but any internet search will give you reading materials for several hours.
Also, You made it sound like you just switched to DexCool why did you say in your later post "I've had good luck with DexCool"? In what?? You just told us you just switched????


Smokeless - You are entitled to your opinion but what you have stated as the "facts" of why you had overheating issues- and what you did to "solve" them - are somewhat misleading.

1) If you had straight antifreeze (or close to it) it would have frozen (for sure in Michigan). Assuming your sled were outdoors, the exchangers would likely have burst (soft aluminum) - or at minimum show bulging/distortion. Yes, you may have had what you thought was a high concentration of coolant but it is VERY UNLIKELY more than 70% because you would have had freeze damage. Unless you or your dealer added straight coolant it did not come from Yamaha that way.

It would be an interesting test if you were to take your concentration gauge and report to us what the readings are that you get from the other sleds you have there? I'll bet they are also at the -84F reading as most manufacturers are using 60/40 to 70/30 mixtures.

2) The phosphate/silicate issue: All of the major 'name brands' are utilizing aluminum safe formulations in their products now. Just becuse your coolant was green DOES NOT mean it was a phosphate/silicate based formulation. I post on an automotive forum and most of the problems with cooling systems are - as you described in your last post - water mineral content issues. Foreign automakers are more attuned to this since most countries have less 'treated' municipal water than we have. The distilled water route is a very good idea.

3) Your cooling system was almost certainly fixed solely by the addition of the cooler. This is now hard to prove since you changed everything at once.

 

[BLACK RX1]

antifreeze

straight antifreeze will freeze say what????

 

[smokeless1]

That's right. Over concentrations of coolant actually performs poorly. My yamaha manual recommends nothing over 60/40 mix. Water in the mix is the active cooling ingrediant, not the coolant which is a lubricant, anti rusting agent, and when mixed with water will prevent freezing. If it isn't mixed with water, apparently the mixure will freeze at VERY low temps.

VT-

I can tell you that I have a good tester, which actually tests for specific density of fluids and that when it pegged out at -84 degrees it was telling me that it will no longer measure the desity beyond that point. I have no doubts that the solution was mixed improperly. NO DOUBTS. Now maybe the dealer lied to me, but I have no reason to suspect that and I specifically asked him First, whether the machines come fully filled with coolant from the factory. I assume if you doubt this, you could call another yammer dealer and verify this. But fact is that it was way over mixed and as I said at the onset that the fluid was way too thick and that was what caught my eye and made me suspect that it wasn't at the proper mix. I do all my own cars and trucks and I see it enough to know what mixed looks like compared to 100% stuff from the jug.

My experience with DEXCOOL is not with the sled, as I obviously just switched and won't know how it effects it til I run a season or two on it.

My experience is with my trucks and cars. NO PROBLEMS FOR ME EVER. I have, and do drain it every other year tho, and I also change spark plugs every 50k as well. It is cheaper to replace sparkplugs than ignition modules and wires that have to work harder to provide spark. I am no expert on this subject but I do yield to a few GM engineers who I live and work around. They gleen plenty from their place of employment.

As for my sleds, they were changed already to a good old 50/50 mix. But as I have posted before, they were well radiated, and they never over heated on me. So I had no reason to suspect an improper mix.

I have had plenty of trouble with the green stuff clogging up and leaving deposits throughtout my engines and eating thru aluminum radiators over the last 25 years. So I go with technology and don't buck the new stuff til the facts are all out on it.

For the record, tho, I will say that an 70/80/90% mix that was in the yamaha CERTAINLY DIDN'T HELP in my over heat issue. And by getting a proper mix in there also won't be hurting to disapate the heat to the aluminum exchangers. But obviously, the rear exchanger is going to help.

My post is fianlly, here so that anyone else who is having trouble with their machines over heating....and lord knows there are many, that they should test the coolant and reduce the water to coolant level to 50/50 for maximum efficiency, and unless they live where -84 below F is a problem to see if the issue goes away or gets reduced. My engine isn't fully broken in, and I know that will effect heat energy, but having a wrong mix come from the factory could add to the problems big. In this land of excess, sometimes more is not always better.