YamaBert
Extreme
Just wanted to give some thoughts and possibly get a few questions answered.
First of all, I love this sled now that I have dialed it in to my liking and with 1400 miles on it. I have lowered the PSI on my Fox Floats to 40 psi, added the 13mm stabilizer bar and thrown on only 6" carbides since Im still running unstudded for now til I scrounge up some more ching for them. I can now corner great with minimal ski lift and run as hard as I used to on my old SX 600. I also have stiffened up the rear as I tend to ride hard 80% of the time and was bottoming out with the stock set up. The motor, just awesome!! Power from bottom to top. The only thing I can say I would love if this sled was a tad lighter.
As for the minor details, I only have a few gripes. The cheap #*$&@ black screws in the lower side panels stripped out instantly when I wanted to take them off which was a pain in the arse. Also, I was riding in a lot of powder the other night after this most recent storm in SE WI and noticed that my track ratchets a lot and the airbox is probably full of snow right now. I understand this isnt a powder machine, but is this common? The high/low beam button popped off somewhere in my last trip too. Has anyone else had this happen or do I just beat my sled to hell apparently?
Well, thats all I got, time to ride while we have snow around here. Be safe out there guys.
First of all, I love this sled now that I have dialed it in to my liking and with 1400 miles on it. I have lowered the PSI on my Fox Floats to 40 psi, added the 13mm stabilizer bar and thrown on only 6" carbides since Im still running unstudded for now til I scrounge up some more ching for them. I can now corner great with minimal ski lift and run as hard as I used to on my old SX 600. I also have stiffened up the rear as I tend to ride hard 80% of the time and was bottoming out with the stock set up. The motor, just awesome!! Power from bottom to top. The only thing I can say I would love if this sled was a tad lighter.
As for the minor details, I only have a few gripes. The cheap #*$&@ black screws in the lower side panels stripped out instantly when I wanted to take them off which was a pain in the arse. Also, I was riding in a lot of powder the other night after this most recent storm in SE WI and noticed that my track ratchets a lot and the airbox is probably full of snow right now. I understand this isnt a powder machine, but is this common? The high/low beam button popped off somewhere in my last trip too. Has anyone else had this happen or do I just beat my sled to hell apparently?
Well, thats all I got, time to ride while we have snow around here. Be safe out there guys.
yamadoo
Yamadoo is a snowmobile ' aholic'.
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- 15 Viper STX DX red/white- GPS and KING AIR suspension 4kmiles
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86 SnoScoot(2) for grand kids
Glad you like the sled.
Track just needs to be snugged up a couple turns - it stretches than ratchets, also hyfax wear loosens it.
I have never had the powder air box problem. SO ?
Have fun be safe
Yamadoo
Track just needs to be snugged up a couple turns - it stretches than ratchets, also hyfax wear loosens it.
I have never had the powder air box problem. SO ?
Have fun be safe
Yamadoo
SharkAttak
TY 4 Stroke God
those rtx are nice sleds
Blue Oval
Expert
Good review, mine has around 1500m now, and seems to just be getting stronger. I keep the floats @ 30, put in the 13mm bar, pulled the limiter up one hole, and as a side note I just noticed that one strap is fraying to the point of almost tearing straight across right above the bolt and washer. I also run the front skid shock loose, and keep the control rod nuts up high for minimal ski lift. I am also using the pipe fix with the stock skis. Best improvement so far!
things I don't like, handwarmers??
track racheting too much and still the ever present hyfax wear. Lighting issues that I'm working on, Other than that i completely love this machine. 
things I don't like, handwarmers??
track racheting too much and still the ever present hyfax wear. Lighting issues that I'm working on, Other than that i completely love this machine. Bowhunter
Extreme
1200 miles on mine, can't say I have ever ridden a better sled, plan on a 13mm bar and better ski's
chadman
Expert
I love mine. Next year I am going to get a revalve job done on my rear skid shocks. It bottoms out all the time. I have almost 2500 miles on it now and the motoer is just awesome. I went riding with a friend today and I let him ride mine and he said he was grinning from ear to ear the whole time. He didn't want to ride it to long because then he would want one. He rides skidoo, he is going to wait for the skidoo 4 stroke.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I agree with the rest of you. Overall this is an awesome sled.
I've got about 8100km on mine right now and I have a great time every time I take it for a ride.
It has been somewhat durable, but not as good as it should really be.
My biggest gripe was the suspension calibration. For a big bump sled, Yamaha really needs to learn how to valve shock absorbers to provide a reasonably comfortable ride that is stable and doesn't bottom out.
You often hear people say you can choose comfort, stability or anti-bottoming capability. In reality a well valved set of shocks can provide all of those within reason. Unfortunately with this sled (the 07 RTX at least), Yamaha valved the suspension in such a way that you really don't get any of them as it shipped from Yamaha.
They ride rough through stutter bumps; They kick and buck over bumps, making the sled unstable on rough terrain and on top of that they bottom out easily (and can hurt your back if you misinterpret the bumps and don't stand up before it bottoms out hard).
Yamaha only used a single stage in their shocks and didn't provide anywhere near enough rebound damping on the center shock. Quite honestly compared to Skidoo's rough trail sled (the MXZ X-package), in stock form the shock valving in our rear suspension is a total joke. If you try to keep up with someone on an MXZ X, you're in for big disappointment.
Now that my skid shocks have been revalved by Mike Carver (Yamaha's snow cross head mechanic who sets up all of their race shocks), my RTX is excellent on rough trails. The ride is on the firm side (similar to stock with the main shock clicker on the 3rd or 4th position), but it is now rock solid stable on rough trails and very difficult to bottom out.
Yesterday I traded back and forth with my buddy on his 2008 REV-XP MXZ X-package 800R on some very rough trails and the sleds are quite comparable as far as bump capability now. They are close enough that I'm not sure which one can be ridden faster on rough trails. With the stock valving there was no way I could keep up with that REV and my suspension would have been smashing hard against the bump stops constantly. The REV is a little softer on smaller bumps, but when it hits a big bump, the final stage in the shock valving really firms up to make sure it doesn't bottom out (this REV-XP X is 100% stock too).
Where the RTX really shines compared to the REV-XP X is the smooth, responsive, clean running motor. Any time you squeeze the throttle, the engine instantly does what you ask of it. The REV has similar power, but it just doesn't respond as quickly and is no where near as predictable.
With the 13mm sway bar my RTX corners much flatter than the REV and this gives the RTX more of a performance "sports car" feel to it.
As far as durability I've recently broken the front pivot arm. Instead of installing another stock one I heavily reinforced mine.
Another issue is I've recently had both slide rails crack where the 3rd pair of idler wheels mount. Yamaha removed these from these sleds for production, but they are still on the fiche and I purchased them from Yamaha. I wonder if the reason these sleds didn't ship with them is because of the way they can cause the slide rails to crack.
Another problem with the 07 RTX is the limiter straps are prone to breaking due to the lack of rebound damping with the center shock (snapping the straps tight over and over). A shock revalve will not only greatly improve the ride, but it will fix this issue too.
Another issue I've had is my chaincase leaking oil. There is an updated chaincase cover available from Yamaha that fixes this potential issue for good.
The final problem I've had applies to all Apex's out there and that is the exhaust donuts started to leak shortly after 6000km (4000 miles). Luckily in my case the donuts were replaced soon enough that the pipes didn't fail. Many other Apex owners are finding they need one both of the $300 y-pipes to be replaced along with the donuts.
In summary, with revalved shocks in the skid, an updated chaincase cover and a reinforced front pivot arm, the 07 RTX makes an excellent rough trail sled that can handle anything, including high mileage saddle bag trips. It would be very easy for Yamaha to make these improvements and have their 09 rough trail RTX sleds in stock form riding along side Skidoo's rough trail sleds. Unfortunately I've been told by Yamaha mechanics and reps that they don't see Yamaha ever doing this though, nor ever using more than a single stage in their shock valving.
I've got about 8100km on mine right now and I have a great time every time I take it for a ride.
It has been somewhat durable, but not as good as it should really be.
My biggest gripe was the suspension calibration. For a big bump sled, Yamaha really needs to learn how to valve shock absorbers to provide a reasonably comfortable ride that is stable and doesn't bottom out.
You often hear people say you can choose comfort, stability or anti-bottoming capability. In reality a well valved set of shocks can provide all of those within reason. Unfortunately with this sled (the 07 RTX at least), Yamaha valved the suspension in such a way that you really don't get any of them as it shipped from Yamaha.
They ride rough through stutter bumps; They kick and buck over bumps, making the sled unstable on rough terrain and on top of that they bottom out easily (and can hurt your back if you misinterpret the bumps and don't stand up before it bottoms out hard).
Yamaha only used a single stage in their shocks and didn't provide anywhere near enough rebound damping on the center shock. Quite honestly compared to Skidoo's rough trail sled (the MXZ X-package), in stock form the shock valving in our rear suspension is a total joke. If you try to keep up with someone on an MXZ X, you're in for big disappointment.
Now that my skid shocks have been revalved by Mike Carver (Yamaha's snow cross head mechanic who sets up all of their race shocks), my RTX is excellent on rough trails. The ride is on the firm side (similar to stock with the main shock clicker on the 3rd or 4th position), but it is now rock solid stable on rough trails and very difficult to bottom out.
Yesterday I traded back and forth with my buddy on his 2008 REV-XP MXZ X-package 800R on some very rough trails and the sleds are quite comparable as far as bump capability now. They are close enough that I'm not sure which one can be ridden faster on rough trails. With the stock valving there was no way I could keep up with that REV and my suspension would have been smashing hard against the bump stops constantly. The REV is a little softer on smaller bumps, but when it hits a big bump, the final stage in the shock valving really firms up to make sure it doesn't bottom out (this REV-XP X is 100% stock too).
Where the RTX really shines compared to the REV-XP X is the smooth, responsive, clean running motor. Any time you squeeze the throttle, the engine instantly does what you ask of it. The REV has similar power, but it just doesn't respond as quickly and is no where near as predictable.
With the 13mm sway bar my RTX corners much flatter than the REV and this gives the RTX more of a performance "sports car" feel to it.
As far as durability I've recently broken the front pivot arm. Instead of installing another stock one I heavily reinforced mine.
Another issue is I've recently had both slide rails crack where the 3rd pair of idler wheels mount. Yamaha removed these from these sleds for production, but they are still on the fiche and I purchased them from Yamaha. I wonder if the reason these sleds didn't ship with them is because of the way they can cause the slide rails to crack.
Another problem with the 07 RTX is the limiter straps are prone to breaking due to the lack of rebound damping with the center shock (snapping the straps tight over and over). A shock revalve will not only greatly improve the ride, but it will fix this issue too.
Another issue I've had is my chaincase leaking oil. There is an updated chaincase cover available from Yamaha that fixes this potential issue for good.
The final problem I've had applies to all Apex's out there and that is the exhaust donuts started to leak shortly after 6000km (4000 miles). Luckily in my case the donuts were replaced soon enough that the pipes didn't fail. Many other Apex owners are finding they need one both of the $300 y-pipes to be replaced along with the donuts.
In summary, with revalved shocks in the skid, an updated chaincase cover and a reinforced front pivot arm, the 07 RTX makes an excellent rough trail sled that can handle anything, including high mileage saddle bag trips. It would be very easy for Yamaha to make these improvements and have their 09 rough trail RTX sleds in stock form riding along side Skidoo's rough trail sleds. Unfortunately I've been told by Yamaha mechanics and reps that they don't see Yamaha ever doing this though, nor ever using more than a single stage in their shock valving.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
Love my 07 RTX too. Everything but the skid. Consider that near hopeless/a money pit. Rex covers a lot of it above, but forgets to add the problems regarding ratcheting and the need to install extroverts to control it (even if not studded). Many have experienced track and hyfax issues (melting) associated with trying to control the ratcheting with track tension.....delaminating, possibley undersize idler wheels, and, and, and.....
Recently decided I had enough, and have replaced the suspension with a Poo Pro X. 200 miles at this point, and smiling! Just me...
Recently decided I had enough, and have replaced the suspension with a Poo Pro X. 200 miles at this point, and smiling! Just me...
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
ahicks said:
I probably should have mentioned the ratcheting, but I still haven't convinced myself that the potential ratcheting is more than a marginal issue. My suspicion is that if you ride in good conditions, keep the track tension near the tight end of the spec, and make sure your idler wheels are in good condition and pushed down all the way when the bolts are tightened, that the stock setup wouldn't really have a ratcheting issue. I do agree that there is no room for margin. A little too tight on the track and the hyfax wears and/or the track gets damaged or at least reduces it life expectancy. A little too loose and it will definitely ratchet.
A bigger issue I'm finding is that the suspension, while still much stronger than the monoshock, isn't as durable as I thought it was. Tonight I was carefully going over my entire skid and installing a new track when I discovered that my rear pivot arm is broken into 3 parts. I suspect it has been broken for a long time, but the way it broke leaves the sled rideable with very little indication of the problem. I debated not fixing it, but I suspect cornering/handling would improve if it was repaired. Right now the rear of the skid has very littler cornering/body roll resistance. Only the skis and the front pivot arm are controlling body roll with the break at the rear.
My guess is it has been broken for at least a couple 1000 miles, looking at the polished and worn cracks. I haven't pulled the rear upper cross shaft out since about 2000 miles so I wouldn't have seen the failure.
chadman
Expert
I have almost 2500 miles on the stock hyfax. It wears to a certain point and it seems that it stops. I check them when I ride just to keep an eye on them.
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
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- '18 RTX 50th "Winder"
YamaBert said:
every apex/attack owner need to go out and buy a #3 philips head socket,this is the reason you stripped the screws,mine all still look like new after many removals,you need the right tool is all.
also,might as well throw in my RTX(06 mono) experience.....to date,this is my fave all time sled....the MONO IMO is the plushest ride ive ever owned,can suck up fairly large moguls and takes the smaller ones like a caddy....sweetest motor ive ever owned,loves to be held to the bar.
13mm sway bar,with pilots,shapers and LEVEL A ARMS(30-40psi un weighted) made this sled handle amazing...ive got near 5000 miles(8000km) on her now and i got her late season the first year...other then a small mashap with Nitrious(lol) this thing has been basically flawless.....sure we all had our idler wheel woes and slider issues,but with two FIX wheel kits,and spoked idlers thats all figured out.
Oh,near forgot to mention the biggest thread on TY....handwarmers!.....yep,we all know by now to slap on the 06 bars/warmers with 07 harness or stock 07 sleds and voila.hot hands!...
LOVE THIS SLED!...pc3 and ign module made it ever better!.....not many machines out there run 120mph on radar,and get amazing fuel economy,and can be held to the bar for mile after mile without blowing up...and pile on litterally thousands of miles and be flawless....I truly hope yammie never gets rid of this motor,IMO they would be making a huge mistake....this motor plain kicks #*$&@.
Dan
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
<<<I probably should have mentioned the ratcheting, but I still haven't convinced myself that the potential ratcheting is more than a marginal issue. My suspicion is that if you ride in good conditions, keep the track tension near the tight end of the spec, and make sure your idler wheels are in good condition and pushed down all the way when the bolts are tightened, that the stock setup wouldn't really have a ratcheting issue>>>
'cmon Rex, this is nuts. If you really believed that you wouldn't have installed the extroverts yourself. If I really thought that, I wouldn't have done the same, as have others. Marginal issue? Good conditions? When did uncontrollable ratcheting become acceptable under any conditions? Idler wheels? What do those have to do with ratcheting? Does the logic run along the lines of getting enough of them to stay in one piece long enogh you can keep enough of the track off the hyfax allowing you to run the track tight enough to control the ratcheting?
At what point do you finally say enough is enough? I'm not going to chase my tail with this thing. I just don't see the/any potential for it. What do you have when you're done? This is certainly no new breakthrough design. If Yammi believed this CK was so great, why didn't they use it under the new Nytro? If they don't think it's so great, why should anyone else? (especially in light of the fact they have provided NOTHING in the way of support for it)
I want to enjoy this sled. I don't want to spend the rest of my time with it wondering what's going to need to be repaired/replaced next, what new issue is going to surface. There are suspensions out there that have NONE OF THESE ISSUES! I'm out to prove that one of them will work just fine under the Apex - proving beyond a reasonable doubt Yammi needs to get their butt in gear. There is nothing unique about this sled's suspension requirements. If somebody else can do it, they should be able to.
'cmon Rex, this is nuts. If you really believed that you wouldn't have installed the extroverts yourself. If I really thought that, I wouldn't have done the same, as have others. Marginal issue? Good conditions? When did uncontrollable ratcheting become acceptable under any conditions? Idler wheels? What do those have to do with ratcheting? Does the logic run along the lines of getting enough of them to stay in one piece long enogh you can keep enough of the track off the hyfax allowing you to run the track tight enough to control the ratcheting?
At what point do you finally say enough is enough? I'm not going to chase my tail with this thing. I just don't see the/any potential for it. What do you have when you're done? This is certainly no new breakthrough design. If Yammi believed this CK was so great, why didn't they use it under the new Nytro? If they don't think it's so great, why should anyone else? (especially in light of the fact they have provided NOTHING in the way of support for it)
I want to enjoy this sled. I don't want to spend the rest of my time with it wondering what's going to need to be repaired/replaced next, what new issue is going to surface. There are suspensions out there that have NONE OF THESE ISSUES! I'm out to prove that one of them will work just fine under the Apex - proving beyond a reasonable doubt Yammi needs to get their butt in gear. There is nothing unique about this sled's suspension requirements. If somebody else can do it, they should be able to.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
ahicks said:
My thinking is that I am much more picky than most and in general I am unwilling to tolerate performance issues, but I also have spoken to lots of 07 RTX owners that tell me they don't have a problem with track ratcheting.
The reason I mentioned the idler wheels is, as you stated, if the track is tight enough to not ratchet, they have to be pushed all the way down or the hyfax will burn right through at the curve in the rail (in my experience anyway - stock from Yamaha mine were up something like 1/16" at the front).
ahicks said:
I've been saying enough is enough fairly quickly with this sled, but (so far) fixing the skid instead of replacing it. I installed Skidoo anti-ratchet sprockets after only 2 or 3 rides. I should have revalved the shocks much sooner though. Being totally honest, until very recently I haven't had any significant durability issues with the CK. Now I seem to have traded bottoming out and excessive kick back for broken pivot arms.
There is definitely nothing amazing about the ProActive CK compared to the competition, but it still is a tough skid compared to most other Yamaha skids, especially the Monoshock. I've been riding this 07 RTX very hard, right alongside Skidoo's toughest offerings (05-08 MXZ). The guys with Monoshock skids who try to ride like this are breaking their front and rear pivot arms as well as slide rails over and over in very few miles. I am disappointed that after only 5000 miles I have broken both the front and rear pivot arms on the CK and none of the Skidoo skids have broken yet, but at least I haven't had the issues that my buddies with Monoshock's have. It will be interesting to see how the 08 MXZ X is doing once it gets 5000 miles on it.
ahicks said:
There is no question about it, Yamaha is still behind the times as far as their suspensions are concerned. With the guys I ride with we've proven this over and over and over. This includes bump absorption, stability on rough trails and overall durability. At the same time Yamaha is (slowly) getting better. When I first posted questions here, 3 years ago, asking if a Yamaha could be ridden as hard as a Polaris without breaking, everyone posted back and told me I wouldn't be happy with a Yamaha because the suspensions can't handle aggressive riding. They were clearly right, but now only 3 years later Yamaha does at least offer what Yamaha considers "rough trail" suspensions as well as plush riding monoshock suspensions. Yamaha does make incredible engines, drive trains and chassis that are both comfortable and durable. When I rode Polaris and before that Skidoo I had many break downs - with those everything except the suspension would break. If it wasn't for the weaknesses in the suspension department, these Yamaha's would be way ahead of the competition.
It'll be interesting to hear how your new skid works out. Let us know. Replacing the skid is probably the ultimate solution, but there will still be lots of tuning and calibration required before it is fully dialed in.
BTW, I just got off the phone (literally) with another Apex owner. He's just had yet another Monoshock rebuild done under warranty (new pivot arms, new rails, bushings, etc.) and he says "enough is enough" and is going to replace the skid with something else before he even rides it (so he can sell the monoshock in like new condition). He's been riding his new REV-XP while waiting for the repairs on his Apex. He's leaning towards a Skidoo skid since they work so well, but he was also going to look at Polaris's new skids as well as aftermarket. He's never broken a Skidoo or Polaris skid and because of that he's thinking one of these might be the best option (as opposed to aftermarket). Interestingly he is now thinking of selling the REV-XP because he hates the stinky, vibrating oil guzzling engine and instead throwing money into a new skid for the Apex.
For me I'm going to continue beefing up the ProActive CK - back to the welders tomorrow...
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
<<<I am unwilling to tolerate performance issues>>>
Ditto!
<<< also have spoken to lots of 07 RTX owners that tell me they don't have a problem with track ratcheting>>>
I'm darn sure no rookie, and I couldn't - not without crippling suspension performance - which ties back to the not tolerable above. It's right....or it's not. Black or white - there is no gray.
<<<there will still be lots of tuning and calibration required before it is fully dialed in. >>>
Not as much as you might think Rex. 200 miles so far and the low speed harshness so apparent with the stock valved CK is no longer an issue. It's gone. The rear has settled down to the point where the front end harshness is now much more apparent (my next step). Original ride height and sag dimensions are already set - spring rate is spot on - without being maxed out. I'm not the hard charging sort that might try driving through the 24"+ stuff. I slow down for that - or go around it. Although I believe it may be capable of that, that would require work I'm not going to get into. This rear is already very close to me calling it a day.....need more miles/varied conditions to know any more.
I would add that the install is very simple. The one I used ('01) uses original CK front mounting points. But this is getting too side tracked. I'll supply install details on request, and write up/post something more complete maybe towards the end of the season. As of the moment, this project/conversion appears to have incredible potential.
Right now, it looks to me like aftermarket is asking for more trouble. Poo and Doo have it right (not familiar with Cat), are priced very reasonable - especially if it lets us put major suspension issues behind us, let's us enjoy this sled for what it really is......
Bottom line? It's very difficult for me to stay closed lipped regarding this skid, or endorse it in any way. Anyone considering the purchase of a CK equipped sled should be aware of these issues.
Ditto!
<<< also have spoken to lots of 07 RTX owners that tell me they don't have a problem with track ratcheting>>>
I'm darn sure no rookie, and I couldn't - not without crippling suspension performance - which ties back to the not tolerable above. It's right....or it's not. Black or white - there is no gray.
<<<there will still be lots of tuning and calibration required before it is fully dialed in. >>>
Not as much as you might think Rex. 200 miles so far and the low speed harshness so apparent with the stock valved CK is no longer an issue. It's gone. The rear has settled down to the point where the front end harshness is now much more apparent (my next step). Original ride height and sag dimensions are already set - spring rate is spot on - without being maxed out. I'm not the hard charging sort that might try driving through the 24"+ stuff. I slow down for that - or go around it. Although I believe it may be capable of that, that would require work I'm not going to get into. This rear is already very close to me calling it a day.....need more miles/varied conditions to know any more.
I would add that the install is very simple. The one I used ('01) uses original CK front mounting points. But this is getting too side tracked. I'll supply install details on request, and write up/post something more complete maybe towards the end of the season. As of the moment, this project/conversion appears to have incredible potential.
Right now, it looks to me like aftermarket is asking for more trouble. Poo and Doo have it right (not familiar with Cat), are priced very reasonable - especially if it lets us put major suspension issues behind us, let's us enjoy this sled for what it really is......
Bottom line? It's very difficult for me to stay closed lipped regarding this skid, or endorse it in any way. Anyone considering the purchase of a CK equipped sled should be aware of these issues.
liquid
Newbie
I am new to yamaha because of some engine issues with my last ski-doo. I have an 06 rtx with 650 miles on it, I put 550 on it since I bought it 3 weeks ago and I love the motor and the gauges, other than that yamaha doesn,t seem to have much going for them, I put ski-doo ski's on it to stop the darting and I am about to put a skidoo suspension in it to stop the bottoming out, I have the spring and the shock at stiffest setting and it bottoms out every 5 minutes, my x package was set at medium adjustments and never bottomed out in 3 years, now these problems may seem minor compared to engine problems it is still annoying and costly when you pay 10,000 dollars for a sled and have to replace ski's and suspension and idler wheels and track clips and who knows what all.
