Despite living in Wisconsin, I have been riding in the mountains for years. I bought my first dedicated mountain sled back in 2000. I have since upgraded, and actually did a fairly extensive mod make-over on my current mountain sled a couple of years ago (an 800EFI Cat).
I am considering another progression in my mountain equipment. I have purchased two 4-stroke Yamahas for trail use in the past two years - '05 Rage and '06 RTX. Now I am thinking about jumping to 4-stroke in the moutains aboard a Yamaha. I got the opportunity to ride a well dialed in Apex S/C last week in Wyoming (thanks SJC!!). I won't overdo it, but I was IMPRESSED.
So - now I am thinking about building a boosted 4-stroke of my own. I have a 4-way debate going with myself now as I ponder this. I have heard that fuel tuning on the carb Vector is easier than EFI tuning on teh APEX platform. I want something pretty straight forward as I don't have too many opportunities to tune at altitude (16 hour drive!). So my first debate is Vector vs Apex. Next, I am debating between turbo and super charger. Wild horsepower is not my biggest goal - I am not a hill banger, more of a boondocker. Handling and maneuverability along with strong power and reliability is my goal. I am open to investing some serious time in my project (tunnel swap, lightweight parts, etc). I've even thought of using my Rage as the donor sled for the project.
What is your opinion - best combination for my goal? Apex or Vector platform? Turbo or blower?
I appreciate any input and experiences you've had!
I am considering another progression in my mountain equipment. I have purchased two 4-stroke Yamahas for trail use in the past two years - '05 Rage and '06 RTX. Now I am thinking about jumping to 4-stroke in the moutains aboard a Yamaha. I got the opportunity to ride a well dialed in Apex S/C last week in Wyoming (thanks SJC!!). I won't overdo it, but I was IMPRESSED.
So - now I am thinking about building a boosted 4-stroke of my own. I have a 4-way debate going with myself now as I ponder this. I have heard that fuel tuning on the carb Vector is easier than EFI tuning on teh APEX platform. I want something pretty straight forward as I don't have too many opportunities to tune at altitude (16 hour drive!). So my first debate is Vector vs Apex. Next, I am debating between turbo and super charger. Wild horsepower is not my biggest goal - I am not a hill banger, more of a boondocker. Handling and maneuverability along with strong power and reliability is my goal. I am open to investing some serious time in my project (tunnel swap, lightweight parts, etc). I've even thought of using my Rage as the donor sled for the project.
What is your opinion - best combination for my goal? Apex or Vector platform? Turbo or blower?
I appreciate any input and experiences you've had!
TurboVector
Expert
I'm running the Vector/Turbo combo and I can tell you that dialing in the jetting on a Vector isn't as easy as an RX-1 since the needles are not adjustable. I know a few guys got creative with O-rings to shim the needle and that appears to be the way I'm headed. Turbo vs. SC is a more difficult decision but it's hard to beat MC-Xpress for reliability.
spray25
TY 4 Stroke God
Some tough questions for sure. I have not tuned an Apex yet, but in theory I would think EFI would be easier than carbs. Having said that MCX has a lot of kits out there with good results and with all of the members here you should be able have a damned good start on your jetting before you ever hit the snow.
As for turbo vs. supercharger....... The only thing you didn't ask to get this argument in full swing is front mount vs. rear mount.
Both SC and turbo have their positives. I see no way you could beat the throttle response of a super charger, however, claims of lag from a turbo are greatly over done. Off hand if you are a boondocker not a hill climber the SC may be a better choice. I have heard a couple of people say though that the SC delivers to much power to fast in some instances. This is not from first hand knowledge I am only repeating others words.
In all out HP, pound for pound of boost, the turbo is always going to make more power.
I have a Bender turbo. They make amazing power. Having said that if I was buying something today I would buy an MCX turbo kit. I have done WAY to much tinkering with my Bender kit and still am. MCX seems to have completed their kit 100% quite a while ago. I feel like I have already been a bit of a guinea pig with the Bender kit and do not wish to do it again. That is why I personally am not interested in the SC right now. The SC kits are still very new and I would prefer to let others work out the bugs. If you buy an MCX kit pretty much all of the bugs have been worked out. This is especially important if your opportunities to ride and tune in the mountains is limited.
As for turbo vs. supercharger....... The only thing you didn't ask to get this argument in full swing is front mount vs. rear mount.
Both SC and turbo have their positives. I see no way you could beat the throttle response of a super charger, however, claims of lag from a turbo are greatly over done. Off hand if you are a boondocker not a hill climber the SC may be a better choice. I have heard a couple of people say though that the SC delivers to much power to fast in some instances. This is not from first hand knowledge I am only repeating others words.
In all out HP, pound for pound of boost, the turbo is always going to make more power.
I have a Bender turbo. They make amazing power. Having said that if I was buying something today I would buy an MCX turbo kit. I have done WAY to much tinkering with my Bender kit and still am. MCX seems to have completed their kit 100% quite a while ago. I feel like I have already been a bit of a guinea pig with the Bender kit and do not wish to do it again. That is why I personally am not interested in the SC right now. The SC kits are still very new and I would prefer to let others work out the bugs. If you buy an MCX kit pretty much all of the bugs have been worked out. This is especially important if your opportunities to ride and tune in the mountains is limited.
Front mount versus rear mount? It is a no brainer - the rear mount offers way too much lag - you have to go with a front! (I just primed the pump, I know! I have absolutely no seat time on either and I am talking like an expert - isn't that how it generally works? 
)
I hear that there have been some mapping concerns with the EFI on the Apex. The one I rode last week was darn close (slight bauble on the bottom) but SJC has gone through a lot to get it there. Chances are it will be dialed in from field testing by season's end.
How much of a inpact is the rider positon and overall handling/weight difference between the Apex and the Vector? Should this steer me one way or the other, then determine boost method?
)I hear that there have been some mapping concerns with the EFI on the Apex. The one I rode last week was darn close (slight bauble on the bottom) but SJC has gone through a lot to get it there. Chances are it will be dialed in from field testing by season's end.
How much of a inpact is the rider positon and overall handling/weight difference between the Apex and the Vector? Should this steer me one way or the other, then determine boost method?
Colorado Yamaha
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I have a 10 psi S/C and the tuning is just frustrating - tearing it down every weekend to work on it (hours to adjust the carbs). With the updates from the Vector to Apex - go with the Apex and S/C, or see what's NEW in a few weeks. I like the S/C due to the immediate low/mid power ~ it's great and spot on, but I've never riden a turbo. When I go to Montana or WY, I have to adjust, the Apex is the way to go.
chubby
Extreme
My MCXpress works great, Just had the remaping done and an Installing a boost controller for the trees. The way I have it clutched there isnt any Lag... Jut too much power with 13 lbs boost in the tight trees. As far as superchargers Time will tell, there has been some complaints as far as Fuel milage with the superchargers. Frint mount turbos, depending on what one have way to much under hood heet for me to deal with...
spray25
TY 4 Stroke God
snomadTT said:Front mount versus rear mount? It is a no brainer - the rear mount offers way too much lag - you have to go with a front! (I just primed the pump, I know! I have absolutely no seat time on either and I am talking like an expert - isn't that how it generally works?
WHAT? Are you smoking crack? A front mount will cause your sled to burst into flames on the first ride from all of the underhood heat!
Just kidding of course. I do worry a bit about the extra heat in the mountains. We tend to work our sleds hard and don't have much speed to get cool air under there and then there is the issue of snow plugging the vents.
woodsrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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I own a RS Vector w/ Bender rear turbo. I had to shim the needles to get it to run right. There is a noticeable lag but not bad if you clutch it right. One of my brothers has an 03 RX1 w/Bender rear mt., it has very little if any lag and was a piece of cake to tune. (in my opinion the Bender pitot tube jet makes jetting adjustments a piece of cake). Both of us have had good success with Bender and I would'nt be afraid to buy another one. We installed these systems ourselves and the documentation is very good. As far as I'm concerned, having seen some of the other brands, Bender, MPI, and MCX are in a league of there own, as far as fit and finish and quality of CRAFTMANSHIP. (boy this will really get things buzzing). Another brother as a Boondocker kit on an APEX. He is having some issues (ref last sentence) but it appears to function alright and Boondocker has been very supportive in working out his issues (very important to have support from the manufacturer). I like the side mount as far as removing weight from the rear of the sled. However, heat under the hood as become an issue and it doesn't take long before the intercoller is heat soaked and a substantial loss of hp is experienced. My brother is in the process of redesigning the intake so he can breath outside air without having an ugly breather sticking out through the side panel. With all this said, if I were to start over again, the sled I would chose would be the APEX. Hands down it appears to be the easiest to tune, handles better and has great throtle response. I would go turbo just because they don't rob hp to make hp. The Boondocker kit has potential just isn't quite there yet. However if you're willing to do some of your own mods (my case) I'd go with the Boondocker. The next sled I'd choose is an 05 RX1. The Vector would be my last choice. An 05 RX1 is only 10 lbs heavier than a Vector.
Whew, that was rather long winded. In any case a turboed four stroke is a whole nother level of riding. You really cann't go wrong no matter what.
Edit: The new maverick track from Yamaha/Camoplast is an awesome track I put one a 162x16 on my Vector.
Whew, that was rather long winded. In any case a turboed four stroke is a whole nother level of riding. You really cann't go wrong no matter what.
Edit: The new maverick track from Yamaha/Camoplast is an awesome track I put one a 162x16 on my Vector.
Skydog
TY 4 Stroke God
I have a Bender rear mount, it has been GREAT!!! I put the kit on very easy, just takes time. After finding out my switches for the boost control where getting pluged from ice. It has been great!! 1,000 miles with zero problems! The miles i ride are hard over 1-2 foot bumps and lot of lake blasting! Turbo lag is not bad at all!
LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!
Skydog
LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!
Skydog
Mountaintech
TY 4 Stroke God
The sled to get is the Apex. Ride it stock for a season and then decide how you want to boost it. Your decision should be a little easier to make after this season of guinea pigging.
SJC
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Next time your out this way you can try my front mount Alpine turbo and compare. It also took approx.
One thing i would do for sue is put around 400 or 500 mile on your Apex or Vector before doing do a boost mod. I Believe tryning to dial in a SC or Turbo while the stock sled is going through breaking in only makes tuning more complicated. Now that im approaching 500 miles the sled is loosening up and some of the minor issues have all but gone away for the most part.
The more miles put on these boosted sleds out in the field the more data that is being kept will only result in a more consistant running boosted sleds.
steve
One thing i would do for sue is put around 400 or 500 mile on your Apex or Vector before doing do a boost mod. I Believe tryning to dial in a SC or Turbo while the stock sled is going through breaking in only makes tuning more complicated. Now that im approaching 500 miles the sled is loosening up and some of the minor issues have all but gone away for the most part.
The more miles put on these boosted sleds out in the field the more data that is being kept will only result in a more consistant running boosted sleds.
steve