Bluebullet
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Crazy..... hummmmmmmm I wonder.....
09nytro
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I'm with you !Grimm said:
STAIN
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I actually congratulate Yamaha for not leaving prevoius customers in the rear view. Not everyone can buck up for a new sled every couple of years. Plus who syas they won't work on new sleds??
Blue Dave
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My understanding us that the focus is on developing this for future new sleds. The aftermarket retrofitting onto older sleds is a second priority in my opinion. In any case it shows us that they are trying to stay ahead of the competition in technology.
RTX
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1OyKnJdR4F ... OyKnJdR4FQ
Here is a new link to watch This helps to explain for the people that cant wrap thier heads around how it works or what exactly yamaha is doing with this or why they are pushing this.
Here is a new link to watch This helps to explain for the people that cant wrap thier heads around how it works or what exactly yamaha is doing with this or why they are pushing this.
couch
Expert
OK.
But I would assume that in order for the "damper" to be effective, it has to be ridgidly mounted to the chassis so that the vibration / shock can be effectively transmitted to and absorbed by the damper ...... with that in mind I can't see how bolting it to the bumper which in turn is bolted / riveted to the tunnel provides a mounting location that is stiff enough to perform the operation.
If you are trying to eliminate vibration, then why not rubber mount / isolate the principal drive components (drive shaft and bearing assemblies)?
Better for Yamaha to put their skill or money into chassis / skid / balance refinement ..... maybe then I would buy another new Yamaha.
But I would assume that in order for the "damper" to be effective, it has to be ridgidly mounted to the chassis so that the vibration / shock can be effectively transmitted to and absorbed by the damper ...... with that in mind I can't see how bolting it to the bumper which in turn is bolted / riveted to the tunnel provides a mounting location that is stiff enough to perform the operation.
If you are trying to eliminate vibration, then why not rubber mount / isolate the principal drive components (drive shaft and bearing assemblies)?
Better for Yamaha to put their skill or money into chassis / skid / balance refinement ..... maybe then I would buy another new Yamaha.
Chasx7
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If I understand this right they are going to have the PD's available in Canada only this year? I'm interested in trying a set.
RTX
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couch said:
Im not an engineer but after reading your post i think i have an answer.
The reason yamaha is looking at chassis dampening instead of rubber frame mounts is because the damper is designed to absorb frame vibration (frame twist and flex) or as the video displayed, resonance.
Rubber mounting the drive components will isolate the vibration from the motor to the frame but does absolutely nothing to eliminate chassis flex or chassis vibration (resonance) through stutter bumps. The frame will still vibrate and flex.
Think of your frame as a guitar string. The string gets plucked and vibrates. It keeps vibrating till it naturally stops.
Each time you hit a bump your frame does the same thing, it bends, flexes, shakes & vibrates. The way i understand it, This damper interupts/absorbs the vibration ultimately giving you a smother more controlable ride
Although it is not an actual yamaha damper, I am posting this link because it is interesting and is functioning on the same principal and just might help people to more clearly understand the principal
www.flow-engineering.com/download/techn ... mation.pdf
This kind of engineering is being applied to bridges, sky scrapers, etc etc.
Just like everyone else, i am impaitently waiting on the next latest and greatest sled from yamaha.
With that said, it is clear to me this is just 1 of hundreds of products yamaha has been working on.
To me, this is in no way a do all fix all, but personally i think this has a $hitload of potential.
If it works as described I can see you riding longer/less fatigued which at the age of 47 sounds great to me
Ak Yammy
Expert
Wonder if it gets rid of the dreaded Apex tunnel drone (which never really bothered me btw). 
"Tuned Mass Dampers" Crap now my head hurts 
I have a great issue with this the sway of a bridge is a long way from the lift in a ski. I spent yrs re-engineering these things from the 03 rx's to 08 Apexes. The ski lift phenomenon is a result of the distance between the roll center vs the center of gravity. I had a series of sway bars made to fill the gap between the 10, 11 and 13 mm bars and went even to cold rolled stock that had 1/2 the flex the material the Yamaha bars have in them.
The results were wicked, I could keep a ski planted under extreme cornering using the heavier bars and tunable Ohlin resevior clickers but when the limit was reached the sled would go crazy and what was once a manageable 6 to 8 lift went balistic and darn near caused the sled to roll right under me.
The front tub on the entire line (RX- Apex) is so rigid there is no flex under the conditions we put them in. I built an 03 rx with a stroked 1100 cc 190 hp apex motor in it With the big sway bar in it. I had trouble loading it into the trailer which had a steep ramp and a mountain track on it for traction. I flipped the sled sideways off the ramp 2 times. As it was climbing the ramp it lifted the left ski so high that I rolled right, hit the right side of the trailer and flew off the trailer into the parking lot. (that was going straight) Caused a lot of laughing from the 100's of people in the motel parking lot.
as far as bolting it to the rear bumper, Boy I dont get that at all it is right next to a pair of 90deg bends and if there is that much flex back there where it attaches on either side of the tunnel would shear or at least cause damage to the holes in the aluminum tunnel where they go through. Not to mention wrinkles that would form in the tunnel itself
When I totalled my 06 Apex at over 100 mph it flew 70 feet before landing on its nose then flipped endo 180 deg and landed on the rear bumper standing upright. The tunnel was destroyed but the rear bumper was the only slavageable part.
P.S. Yes I get it - I do crash a lot
I have a great issue with this the sway of a bridge is a long way from the lift in a ski. I spent yrs re-engineering these things from the 03 rx's to 08 Apexes. The ski lift phenomenon is a result of the distance between the roll center vs the center of gravity. I had a series of sway bars made to fill the gap between the 10, 11 and 13 mm bars and went even to cold rolled stock that had 1/2 the flex the material the Yamaha bars have in them.
The results were wicked, I could keep a ski planted under extreme cornering using the heavier bars and tunable Ohlin resevior clickers but when the limit was reached the sled would go crazy and what was once a manageable 6 to 8 lift went balistic and darn near caused the sled to roll right under me.
The front tub on the entire line (RX- Apex) is so rigid there is no flex under the conditions we put them in. I built an 03 rx with a stroked 1100 cc 190 hp apex motor in it With the big sway bar in it. I had trouble loading it into the trailer which had a steep ramp and a mountain track on it for traction. I flipped the sled sideways off the ramp 2 times. As it was climbing the ramp it lifted the left ski so high that I rolled right, hit the right side of the trailer and flew off the trailer into the parking lot. (that was going straight) Caused a lot of laughing from the 100's of people in the motel parking lot.
as far as bolting it to the rear bumper, Boy I dont get that at all it is right next to a pair of 90deg bends and if there is that much flex back there where it attaches on either side of the tunnel would shear or at least cause damage to the holes in the aluminum tunnel where they go through. Not to mention wrinkles that would form in the tunnel itself
When I totalled my 06 Apex at over 100 mph it flew 70 feet before landing on its nose then flipped endo 180 deg and landed on the rear bumper standing upright. The tunnel was destroyed but the rear bumper was the only slavageable part.
P.S. Yes I get it - I do crash a lot
Interesting .wonder what would happen if yamaha added 4 or 6 or 8? probably wouldnt even feel the sled running under you...would like to try it out .RTX said:
yamaha needs to start working on a flux capacitor next !
Ak Yammy
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RTX
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Yamadog
I never said the sway of a bridge was the same as ski lift.
I posted the link because it is interesting and i see it functioning in the same principal as a chassis damper
I thoulht maybe showing some sort of real world scenario of a situation or application people can relate to might help people understand how i see it working.
Are they the same? Hell no!! Do they work in a similar way? Absolutely!!
Take it how ever you want.
Theres tons of people believing in this crazy chassis dampening black magic.
A quick search on automobile chassis dampening can bring you some interesting perspective from people that actually use these products in automotive applications.
I never said the sway of a bridge was the same as ski lift.
I posted the link because it is interesting and i see it functioning in the same principal as a chassis damper
I thoulht maybe showing some sort of real world scenario of a situation or application people can relate to might help people understand how i see it working.
Are they the same? Hell no!! Do they work in a similar way? Absolutely!!
Take it how ever you want.
Theres tons of people believing in this crazy chassis dampening black magic.
A quick search on automobile chassis dampening can bring you some interesting perspective from people that actually use these products in automotive applications.
Crewchief47
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couch
Expert
Problem is that when all is said and done, in the case of the Nytro chassis its about the same as putting lipstick on a pig .... the main issues of weight, balance and vertical centre of gravity is still buggered up.
Yamaha needs to go back to the drawing boards and use its talent - or recruit / plunder talent as in the automotive sector - to come up with a decent light chassis for cross over and off trail riders. No one doubts their ability with respect to engines. I don't ride trails so more weight to fix a problem that really doesn't exist is of no interest or benefit.
Maybe for the trail riders who like to put on 500 km a day on groomed trails it may reduce unpleasant motions / vibration band therefore offer some benefit, but for lots of yamaha riders who prefer 50 km of off trail to 500 km of trail it's a different story.
As for the engineering, proper use of FEA would likely achieve a similar or better result with the benefit of increased stiffness and reduced weight. As for the real world use of the dampers, mounting locations seem to be centred around the mounting points for shock / strut assemblies ..... not as an afterthought tagged on to the rear bumper ......
Yamaha needs to go back to the drawing boards and use its talent - or recruit / plunder talent as in the automotive sector - to come up with a decent light chassis for cross over and off trail riders. No one doubts their ability with respect to engines. I don't ride trails so more weight to fix a problem that really doesn't exist is of no interest or benefit.
Maybe for the trail riders who like to put on 500 km a day on groomed trails it may reduce unpleasant motions / vibration band therefore offer some benefit, but for lots of yamaha riders who prefer 50 km of off trail to 500 km of trail it's a different story.
As for the engineering, proper use of FEA would likely achieve a similar or better result with the benefit of increased stiffness and reduced weight. As for the real world use of the dampers, mounting locations seem to be centred around the mounting points for shock / strut assemblies ..... not as an afterthought tagged on to the rear bumper ......
