Charged RTX
Expert
I have heard so many different numbers for pump gas HP numbers. What is the real power level on 93. Also can you still change a pulley and run race gas and more boost.
The centrifugal SC compressor is exactly the same as a Turbo compressor except it is driven by the crank instead of the exhaust gases.
The same rules apply.
Lower the static/dynamic compression enough you could run 87 octane.
Stage-I SC comparable to the small turbos 230+hp
Stage-II SC is comparable to the medium turbos 280+hp
Stage-III SC is comparable to the big turbos 350+hp
The SC Kits are new this year so they a WAY behind the Turbos in testing and development. The best ones to answer your questions would be the people testing and developing the SC kits.
Call Toll Free 1-888-649-4609
http://www.mountainperformance.com/
The same rules apply.
Lower the static/dynamic compression enough you could run 87 octane.
Stage-I SC comparable to the small turbos 230+hp
Stage-II SC is comparable to the medium turbos 280+hp
Stage-III SC is comparable to the big turbos 350+hp
The SC Kits are new this year so they a WAY behind the Turbos in testing and development. The best ones to answer your questions would be the people testing and developing the SC kits.
Call Toll Free 1-888-649-4609
http://www.mountainperformance.com/
slymax
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
How about a straight answer ?
Stage 1 as supplied - pump gas - 180hp
I don't see any reason why you can't change pulleys and increase boost , and put in headgasket spacer etc. The only other issue would be to get the extra fuel.
Stage 1 as supplied - pump gas - 180hp
I don't see any reason why you can't change pulleys and increase boost , and put in headgasket spacer etc. The only other issue would be to get the extra fuel.
ken_climb
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Yah! Stage 2, low comp pistons or spacer gasket, pump gas (maybe a splash of race fuel for lubrication) Sounds like a recipe for FUN!
The best ones to answer your questions would be the people testing and developing the SC kits.
Call Toll Free 1-888-649-4609
http://www.mountainperformance.com/
I’m by no means a tech rep for MPI… Superabe would be the guy for SC tech questions, he quoted "The stock injectors and fuel pump are plenty capable of supplying fuel for 10lbs of boost and stay well with in specs for both"… I was stating generalities/possibilities on boost/compression… 180hp sounded low to me so I picked up the phone, it's just that easy, and was told "Apex, Stage-I, no engine mods, plug-n-play, 200pump/240mix"
slymax
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
They told me 180 and now 200. Man, I wish they would get it together. What did they say they were doing to jack up the fuel pressure with stock fuel pump and injectors ?
If you Google search fuel pump voltage/mapping and look on some the "import tuner" web sites raising the voltage and modifying the mapping (idle, mid, full throttle, accel, decel, etc.) to accommodate the increased airflow (boost) is a common modification... There are tons of options out there... That's what they are doing at MPI, modifying the voltage/mapping... The latest SnoWest ad says Mac (owner) has a high-level background in automotive EFI applications... I’ll get the quote when I get home tonight...
Example of the type of products that are available:
http://www.msdignition.com/tc_24.htm
Example of the type of products that are available:
http://www.msdignition.com/tc_24.htm
SUPERABE
Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2005
- Messages
- 27
200 hp on premium fuel with no engine modifications. 240 hp with 50/50. These numbers are not requirments as much as they are recommendations that we have choosen for liability reasons and are way with in the safty margines. Now this doesn't mean that you can't run 240 hp (10 psi) on premium as lots of people do, it only means that we cannot guarantee that it will not be an issue in some extreme situation.Not sure why there are different numbers floating around except that maybe one of our sales guys talked to somebody with a special situation such as altitude or engine mods that could have had some inpact on possible hp ouput. Like Hammer said, in essence this unit is identical to a turbo system except it is driven mechanicly instead of though the exhaust and therein will require the same type of fuel at relative hp numbers as turbo systems do. We offer solutions such as head gaskets and shims, customer specific tuned f/i boxes and a host of other options to accomidate those who have special fuel situations and still wish to run big hp.
Stage I kits are not upgradable to stage II as the s/c is slightly larger on the stage II and stage III kits. However, stage II and III kits are tunable for different boost levels from 11 psi to over 25 psi.
Thanks Hammer.
Stage I kits are not upgradable to stage II as the s/c is slightly larger on the stage II and stage III kits. However, stage II and III kits are tunable for different boost levels from 11 psi to over 25 psi.
Thanks Hammer.
as long as we got you here superabe ,what are stage II and III premium fuel hp numbers?
Bossman
Expert
Also if I run stage II sc with low compression pistons what kind of power can we make on pump fuel.
Stage I---no engine mods. 200hp , pump fuel.
Stage II--larger compressor , Head gasket ,___hp , pump fuel.
Stage III-larger compressor , Head gasket , Low compression pistons , stronger rods ,___hp , pump fuel.
I heard Max hp for stage III is 350hp on race fuel , but what is max hp on pump fuel for each stage ?
us motorheads who want more from that point can add race fuel and turn boost up.
Please Clarify each stage mods as to pump fuel , superabe , MPI
______________________
162---06 apex mt "Boost it"
162---05 M8 Noss A-CAT--190hp
159---03 vertical escape pipe@ported--160hp
159---02 MMAX 700 pipe,ported,Noss---170hp For Sale 739 miles
151---02 High Mark X 800
151---01 High Mark X 800
144---00 RMK 800
136---99 RMK 700
136---98 Rmk 700
136---97 SKS 700
136---96 Storm 800
133.5-95 Storm 800 133.5 track kit
133.5-95 XCR 600 133.5 track kit
121---91 Indy 650
121---88 WildCat 650 A-CAT Submarine
121---81 EL-tigre 6000 A-CAT
121---76 EL-tigre 5000 Aaen twin piped A-CAT
-------73 PUMA 440 A-CAT
-------71 PANTHER 399 KOHLER--DADS MACHINE
2-stroke is like a Bic-shaver--disposable
Stage II--larger compressor , Head gasket ,___hp , pump fuel.
Stage III-larger compressor , Head gasket , Low compression pistons , stronger rods ,___hp , pump fuel.
I heard Max hp for stage III is 350hp on race fuel , but what is max hp on pump fuel for each stage ?
us motorheads who want more from that point can add race fuel and turn boost up.
Please Clarify each stage mods as to pump fuel , superabe , MPI
______________________
162---06 apex mt "Boost it"
162---05 M8 Noss A-CAT--190hp
159---03 vertical escape pipe@ported--160hp
159---02 MMAX 700 pipe,ported,Noss---170hp For Sale 739 miles
151---02 High Mark X 800
151---01 High Mark X 800
144---00 RMK 800
136---99 RMK 700
136---98 Rmk 700
136---97 SKS 700
136---96 Storm 800
133.5-95 Storm 800 133.5 track kit
133.5-95 XCR 600 133.5 track kit
121---91 Indy 650
121---88 WildCat 650 A-CAT Submarine
121---81 EL-tigre 6000 A-CAT
121---76 EL-tigre 5000 Aaen twin piped A-CAT
-------73 PUMA 440 A-CAT
-------71 PANTHER 399 KOHLER--DADS MACHINE
2-stroke is like a Bic-shaver--disposable
How much boost can I run on 92 octane...:?:
Not an easy question to answer, so, it depends is the correct answer.
COMPRESSOR MAP - Boost pressure (PSI) versus air flow rate (CFM) versus engine efficiency are the pieces of the puzzle that must be fit. Matched to the engines potential. More PSI does not directly relate to more CFM but more CFM does directly relate to more HP.
COMPRESSION RATIO - Lowering the compression ratio allows the engine to run more boost with the same octane. For example, 8.0:1 vs 9.5:1 can tolerate another 3 psi. The 1.5 lower CR loses 3% (2% per point). It still ends up being a net gain.
AIR CHARGE TEMP - 1 psi boost increases air discharge temperature 10°-20°.
BOOST - Both higher compression ratios and boost increase cylinder pressure and demand higher octane fuel to eliminate detonation. Fuel octane determines the amount of boost/heat/compression ratio an engine will accept.
IGNITION TIMING - Retarding ignition timing will allow the engine to run more boost but not without a horsepower penalty.
AIR FUEL RATIO - You can't make horsepower without fuel. Richer air fuel ratios reduce power but permit higher boost levels on a given fuel octane. Leaner ratios make more power but need lower boost. So a lean mixture with high octane makes the most horsepower.
1 psi boost = .5 point CR (effective Compression Ratio)
1 point CR = 2 psi boost (Cylinder Pressure)
1 point CR = 2% HP
1 psi boost requires 1-1.5 octane (minimum)
1 psi boost = 6.8% HP max
1 point CR = 3 - 5 octane
1 AF ratio = 2 octane
1° advance = 1/2 - 3/4 octane point
10° engine coolant (160° -180° range) = 1 octane
20° ambient = 1 octane
1000' altitude = -1 octane point
1000' altitude = .5 psi
6°F temp change = 1% air density
30% humidity = 1 octane
10° air charge temperature = 1% HP
-20° charge temp = .5 psi additional boost with same octane
3/4 PSI DROP = 5% pressure
10 psi fuel pressure = 8% AF ratio: 5 psi = 4% AF ratio
10HP = .1 sec / 1 mph 1/4 mile
100 lbs = .1 sec / 1 mph 1/4 mile
http://www.superchargersonline.com/hp_calculator.asp
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compression.htm
As posted earlier, the call is free, 1-888-649-4609...
Not an easy question to answer, so, it depends is the correct answer.
COMPRESSOR MAP - Boost pressure (PSI) versus air flow rate (CFM) versus engine efficiency are the pieces of the puzzle that must be fit. Matched to the engines potential. More PSI does not directly relate to more CFM but more CFM does directly relate to more HP.
COMPRESSION RATIO - Lowering the compression ratio allows the engine to run more boost with the same octane. For example, 8.0:1 vs 9.5:1 can tolerate another 3 psi. The 1.5 lower CR loses 3% (2% per point). It still ends up being a net gain.
AIR CHARGE TEMP - 1 psi boost increases air discharge temperature 10°-20°.
BOOST - Both higher compression ratios and boost increase cylinder pressure and demand higher octane fuel to eliminate detonation. Fuel octane determines the amount of boost/heat/compression ratio an engine will accept.
IGNITION TIMING - Retarding ignition timing will allow the engine to run more boost but not without a horsepower penalty.
AIR FUEL RATIO - You can't make horsepower without fuel. Richer air fuel ratios reduce power but permit higher boost levels on a given fuel octane. Leaner ratios make more power but need lower boost. So a lean mixture with high octane makes the most horsepower.
1 psi boost = .5 point CR (effective Compression Ratio)
1 point CR = 2 psi boost (Cylinder Pressure)
1 point CR = 2% HP
1 psi boost requires 1-1.5 octane (minimum)
1 psi boost = 6.8% HP max
1 point CR = 3 - 5 octane
1 AF ratio = 2 octane
1° advance = 1/2 - 3/4 octane point
10° engine coolant (160° -180° range) = 1 octane
20° ambient = 1 octane
1000' altitude = -1 octane point
1000' altitude = .5 psi
6°F temp change = 1% air density
30% humidity = 1 octane
10° air charge temperature = 1% HP
-20° charge temp = .5 psi additional boost with same octane
3/4 PSI DROP = 5% pressure
10 psi fuel pressure = 8% AF ratio: 5 psi = 4% AF ratio
10HP = .1 sec / 1 mph 1/4 mile
100 lbs = .1 sec / 1 mph 1/4 mile
http://www.superchargersonline.com/hp_calculator.asp
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compression.htm
As posted earlier, the call is free, 1-888-649-4609...
slymax
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I am always calculating that in my head when I hit the flipper and watch my bosst gauge, LOL
Says: "Mac is an Electrical Engineer with direct EFI experience for GM and National Semiconductor"
You would have to do a little thinking/calculating of your own if you wish to stray from what a manufacturer recommends/offers... (Example: I want 300hp on 92 octane, when the manufacturer recommends/offers the 300hp package on mix or straight 110 octane)... If you're unwilling or unable to do a little thinking/calculating on your own then just go with what the manufacturer recommends/offers, for your set of conditions, and stick with that... If you want to run something different than what is recommended/offered in a base kit then you would have to do some calculations, consider operating principals, and operating parameters... You have to consider the "worst case" environment the vehicle will be operated in... If you're only going to be trail riding, constant speed, good airflow, low engine loads with the occasional short bursts of high boost the requirements are completely different from what you would need for a low speed, tree filled, steep-n-deep powder, low air flow (hood covered with snow), extreme engine load situation... You may have been able to get away with high boost and low octane in the trail situation but the extreme load situation exceeded those parameters and will require changes in your calculations of compression ratio, fuel octane, cooling, or boost parameters...
Getting efficient effective horsepower numbers in each RPM range 1000, 2000, 3000, up to 10,000+ is a major performance consideration... Another major performance consideration is you lose 40-50% of that horsepower in the drive train... Big horsepower numbers relate to "potential" performance... Getting those numbers to the ground through drive train tuning, effective use of available traction, and suspension tuning has a direct relation to actual performance on the snow... So thinking about, calculating, and testing a multitude of scenarios is going to reflect your "potential" horsepowers actual performance on the snow...
slymax
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I never run high boost with low octane and I rarely trail ride.
Just punch it and smile. It won't matter whether your turbo is exhaust or belt driven, the grin factor will still be there.
Just punch it and smile. It won't matter whether your turbo is exhaust or belt driven, the grin factor will still be there.
