Rx-1MtnRider
Newbie
Hey Guys, I could use some help here. Anyone have any ideas on what I need to do for clutching on my machine. I ride any where from sea level to around 4000 ft. Any push in the right direction would be a great help.
Silver Streak
Extreme
Rx-1;
I did alot of clutch testing last year and found out that Dalton makes a good kit and also, Yamaha 89A's work well for the deep stuff. They don't pull as hard on hard pack as the stock, but the track speed is better when climbing. For your application, below 4000 ft, I would try the 89A-10 weght @50-53 grams with a YGY spring and try your stock helix with a silver spring @70Deg. I had good luck with this set up but Spray tried it on his and he didn't like it. I was getting 42-46 MPH track speed while climbing in the steep and deep at 6000 to 8000 ft.
Good luck
SS
I did alot of clutch testing last year and found out that Dalton makes a good kit and also, Yamaha 89A's work well for the deep stuff. They don't pull as hard on hard pack as the stock, but the track speed is better when climbing. For your application, below 4000 ft, I would try the 89A-10 weght @50-53 grams with a YGY spring and try your stock helix with a silver spring @70Deg. I had good luck with this set up but Spray tried it on his and he didn't like it. I was getting 42-46 MPH track speed while climbing in the steep and deep at 6000 to 8000 ft.
Good luck
SS
Viper34
Pro
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Messages
- 138
I would leave the stock weights in and start at Yamaha's suggested setting for that altitude, then fine tune it with rivets, so that it climbs between 9800 and 10,000 rpms. You could even adjust the sec. p/l a little to get your desired backshift and fine tune the rpm. I think that is much easier then throwing in some 89A-10 which were made for a vmax4. The silver spring is good for acceleration runs, but it cannot backshift the secondary fast enough to match the engine braking of a 4-stroke. Explain: Primary slows down much quicker then the secondary which causes the clutch system to "free wheel".
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
You knew I just had to chime in on this one! :lol: I ran the stock weights for a couple hundred miles and I thought they were pretty impressive.
Then I switched to Dalton weights and liked them but my fuel economy seemed to diminish with the weights. I think the 57.5 Dalton weights (or maybe the next size up) would be great for you. I ran the 57.5s at 2-6,000 feet. Use your stock 16.5mm rollers with them. I was using 15mm and the stock 16.5mm would have worked better down low.
Next I trried the Yamaha 8DN-00 weights from a 98 MSRX. The thing the Dalton weights seemed be missing was the heavy tip weight. It made it rev faster but used too much fuel. The Daltons use the 8DN profile so I thought what the heck. I loaded them up and WOW. I may have to throw even more weight at them now by using nuts and bolts but they are a kick in the pants.
I have a set of the Heavy Hitters loaded and ready to try as well. Time will tell with them.
I bought a set of 89A-10 weights to try as well. It should be fun testing them all.
I bet I tried a dozen heliexs from Dalton last winter. My personal favorite is the 54/42 progressive. The "R" helixes aren't needed on the mountain sleds with their 2" tracks. They were designed to eliminate an off the line over rev condition. I still think a 56/42 or 58/42 would be fun to try as well.
Secondary springs? I liked the Yamaha silver at 70-80 degrees. The stock primary spring (O/S/O) worked about the best in my applications.
Best of luck. Powder Blue
Then I switched to Dalton weights and liked them but my fuel economy seemed to diminish with the weights. I think the 57.5 Dalton weights (or maybe the next size up) would be great for you. I ran the 57.5s at 2-6,000 feet. Use your stock 16.5mm rollers with them. I was using 15mm and the stock 16.5mm would have worked better down low.
Next I trried the Yamaha 8DN-00 weights from a 98 MSRX. The thing the Dalton weights seemed be missing was the heavy tip weight. It made it rev faster but used too much fuel. The Daltons use the 8DN profile so I thought what the heck. I loaded them up and WOW. I may have to throw even more weight at them now by using nuts and bolts but they are a kick in the pants.
I have a set of the Heavy Hitters loaded and ready to try as well. Time will tell with them.
I bought a set of 89A-10 weights to try as well. It should be fun testing them all.
I bet I tried a dozen heliexs from Dalton last winter. My personal favorite is the 54/42 progressive. The "R" helixes aren't needed on the mountain sleds with their 2" tracks. They were designed to eliminate an off the line over rev condition. I still think a 56/42 or 58/42 would be fun to try as well.
Secondary springs? I liked the Yamaha silver at 70-80 degrees. The stock primary spring (O/S/O) worked about the best in my applications.
Best of luck. Powder Blue
Rx-1MtnRider
Newbie
Hey guys thanks for the info so far. It will be a great help as soon as we get some snow to play in. Hey Powder I think I will try the Dalton weights you suggested and keep the stock rollers. Do you think I would need to change my helix or just leave it stock. Will I over-rev with this set up at my altitude? With the stock clutch set up and only 80 miles on last years sled,( i know low miles, we didnt have any snow this last year up here, we had green grass in Feb). I am already turning over 10,500 on the tac....I am open for for any information you can give me.... I also just ordered the springs for the carbs from Holtzman engineering. They say another 800 - 1000 rpm's.... how much more weight will I need to compensate for the added rpms? Again thanks for the info you guys give..
Silver Streak
Extreme
RX-1;
If you are thinking about the Daltons, get the 89A-10's instead. The profile is the same and you can put weight in the 89A's to adjust to your altitude. Dalton's don't have holes to put rivets in. Call Tom Hartman. He has kits just for you with 89A's. Or Dalton's if you prefer. The problem with the stock weights is you can't find a happy medium between trail and powder. If you clutch to powder you over rev on the trail and vice versa.
The 89A's take care of that. I also really hope the carb springs do what they say they will. If that is the case you can really load up the weights and get some good track speed while climbing. I also think the stock primary spring is way too stiff. The YGY works so much better for me personally the way I ride. I avoid the trails like the plague. I go through the trees whenever possible and the Stock spring is just too wingy. Yes wingy. That is a technical term. Sorry to be so long winded. I just really need to get this all off my chest. I spent way too much time last winter changing my clutches!
SS
If you are thinking about the Daltons, get the 89A-10's instead. The profile is the same and you can put weight in the 89A's to adjust to your altitude. Dalton's don't have holes to put rivets in. Call Tom Hartman. He has kits just for you with 89A's. Or Dalton's if you prefer. The problem with the stock weights is you can't find a happy medium between trail and powder. If you clutch to powder you over rev on the trail and vice versa.
The 89A's take care of that. I also really hope the carb springs do what they say they will. If that is the case you can really load up the weights and get some good track speed while climbing. I also think the stock primary spring is way too stiff. The YGY works so much better for me personally the way I ride. I avoid the trails like the plague. I go through the trees whenever possible and the Stock spring is just too wingy. Yes wingy. That is a technical term. Sorry to be so long winded. I just really need to get this all off my chest. I spent way too much time last winter changing my clutches!
SS
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
True, the 89A weights do have the holes for adjustability. I bugged Dale at Dalton to build his weights with at least one hole. He siad they were heat treated. I said ok, dril the hole or holes before they're heat treated. Then he said the RX-1 is hyper sensitive to where weight is added to the profile and that loading up the clutch weighta in the wrong spot would do more harm than good. I relented at this point but I still think it makes sense. If you're going to buy some weights the 8DN-00, 8DN-10, 8DN-20 weights should all be good to try. The 8BU-00 weights will pull your arms out of their sockets but with a tip like a bird beak don't expect big top end numbers. The 89A-10 sure looks like it has what it takes but I haven't tried mine yet. If you buy something call Dave @ 1-800-598-5700 tell him Lee sent you and he should sell you the weights for about $21.00 each.
Helix? Try the stock one first. Powder Blue
Helix? Try the stock one first. Powder Blue
Viper34
Pro
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Messages
- 138
The RX-1 engine is not at all sensative to profile changes, if it is, your clutches could be way out of balance, basically the wide toque band makes it non-sensative. Remember, just because your engine rpm might seem sensative, at the clutch is 20% less change.
The problem with the stock weights is at altitudes over 7000' feet you cannot lighten them up enough. I found by grinding 1mm off each side of the clutch weight, I was able to keep that profile (which is best matched for the 4 stroke engine) but lighter all the way through the clutch stroke. I then was able to add weight to get my desired rpm's. I ran from 9500 to 10,500 and found it climbed best between 9800 and 10,000.
Running 89A and 8BU's or 8DN's, the profile is not matched for the 4 stroke engine, the rpm's and performance will be far too sensative.
The problem with the stock weights is at altitudes over 7000' feet you cannot lighten them up enough. I found by grinding 1mm off each side of the clutch weight, I was able to keep that profile (which is best matched for the 4 stroke engine) but lighter all the way through the clutch stroke. I then was able to add weight to get my desired rpm's. I ran from 9500 to 10,500 and found it climbed best between 9800 and 10,000.
Running 89A and 8BU's or 8DN's, the profile is not matched for the 4 stroke engine, the rpm's and performance will be far too sensative.
Silver Streak
Extreme
Viper;
What kind of track speed were you pulling when you were climbing in the steep and deep? I'm curious about what you did to the stock weights to make them work.
SS
What kind of track speed were you pulling when you were climbing in the steep and deep? I'm curious about what you did to the stock weights to make them work.
SS
Viper34
Pro
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Messages
- 138
I explained what I did to the stock weights above, for my situation, which was from 7000 to 10,000' elevation.
Giving you track speed numbers doesn't really help you out, as they can vary from hour to hour, depending on snow conditions. What is most important is vehicle speed, so finding the best balance between track speed and traction will give you the best vehicle speed.
If I were you, I would leave the stock weights in and adjust them to run between 9800 and 10,000 rpm's.
Giving you track speed numbers doesn't really help you out, as they can vary from hour to hour, depending on snow conditions. What is most important is vehicle speed, so finding the best balance between track speed and traction will give you the best vehicle speed.
If I were you, I would leave the stock weights in and adjust them to run between 9800 and 10,000 rpm's.
Silver Streak
Extreme
Viper;
You and I disagree on what is important. Track speed of vehicle speed. I can garantee where I ride track speed plays the dominate role. There are way too many variables that play into vehicle speed. Track speed is constant. Or at least more consitant. With track speed, snow conditions are really the only variable when clutching. You can agree or disagree, that's what makes the world go around.
SS
You and I disagree on what is important. Track speed of vehicle speed. I can garantee where I ride track speed plays the dominate role. There are way too many variables that play into vehicle speed. Track speed is constant. Or at least more consitant. With track speed, snow conditions are really the only variable when clutching. You can agree or disagree, that's what makes the world go around.
SS
Viper34
Pro
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Messages
- 138
If track speed is most important, cut your 2" paddle track down to a 1" track, I promise you, your track speed will be very high. Finding the best balance between track speed and traction gets you up the hill. Compare this to a drag car, if you smoke the tires off the line, your tire speed will be very high, but your vehicle speed will be very slow, now if you have big slicks on, and you have almost no tire spin (your tire speed will be low) but your vehicle speed will be higher.
Silver Streak
Extreme
Are you serious? You're not talking to an idiot here. Who said anything about a 1" track? Aren't we all running 2"? That is not even up for discussion. That is one of those constants I was talking about. Man! This is exactally why I don't post very much. Inevitably someone has to come here and cause trouble.
Rx-1;
I hope some of these posts help. This was my last 2 cents worth.
SS
Rx-1;
I hope some of these posts help. This was my last 2 cents worth.
SS
Viper34
Pro
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Messages
- 138
Before agreeing to disagree makes the world go around, now I am causing trouble giving my opinion from my experience? I was trying to support my opinion that the best balance between track speed and traction makes the best climbing sled.
Don't be so sensative..
Don't be so sensative..
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
Viper34, did you put your weights on a milling machine to accurately remove the 1mm of thickness off of each weight? I think HOW you removed the material is maybe what Silver Streak was asking?
I'm with you on the track speed thing. Last winter I was climbing with my sled and my track speed was somewhere around 53 mph (maybe 63 I don't remember, it tells you how much stock I put in track speed) I got lambasted on here for the hill not being steep enough and/or the snow being too packed because my track speed was higher than they thought it should be. I was using the 8DN-00 weights at the time too.
I too think it's a balancing act between traction, snow consistency, engine RPM, ect. Track speed may be a good indication of how much power you're putting to the track but it's not the end all be all. Powder Blue
I'm with you on the track speed thing. Last winter I was climbing with my sled and my track speed was somewhere around 53 mph (maybe 63 I don't remember, it tells you how much stock I put in track speed) I got lambasted on here for the hill not being steep enough and/or the snow being too packed because my track speed was higher than they thought it should be. I was using the 8DN-00 weights at the time too.
I too think it's a balancing act between traction, snow consistency, engine RPM, ect. Track speed may be a good indication of how much power you're putting to the track but it's not the end all be all. Powder Blue
