Rice_Z24
Veteran
I was wondering if i can run sunoco 94 octane in my seld? the dealer tells me that i can't cause it burns too hot and eventually it will burn a hole through my piston. Can someone let me know if this is true or a myth
Bob Miller
TY 4 Stroke Master
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I have an 04 Warrior and I have run it on 87 octane for the last 6 years and it runs fine. There is no need to run 94 octane, high test gas burns slower in the combustion chamber and these engines where not designed for High Test, they where designed to run on regular gas.
I'm not having good results with the 10% Ethanol down here, when I run in Quebec (No Ethanol) it runs great!
I'm not having good results with the 10% Ethanol down here, when I run in Quebec (No Ethanol) it runs great!
wienerwater
Expert
I have run 94 octane in mine for 2 years without an issue, or plug problem, before going turbo. It was designed to run "minimum 87" and with the new gas being crap, I wouldn't hesitate to run 89 or 91 just because. I suggest your dealer should have a look around as to what people use, not just what the book says.That 87 will do more harm then good now.
Bob Miller
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wienerwater said:
Good Point
I did not have any issues running in Quebec on Regular (not sure what it was rated?)
But when I started going to Maine and they where blending 10% Ethanol it started running crappy
I'm going up in a few weeks, and I'll try running the High Test to see how that runs!
wienerwater
Expert
Bob....Canada is in the midst of adding up to 10% ethanol in gas now, not sure about Quebec itself. Anyway, I again would try and stick to about 91 octane and 94 if you want. There really might not be any noticeable difference with 94, I just did because my local gas is good stuff, Chevron.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Ethyl alcohol has been present in fuels here for... ever. Nothing new about it.
As for 94...
Bad idea.
1) it won't burn as thoroughly, which means that you'll get more carbon buildup on the piston, combustion chamber, plugs, valves, exhaust, and most importantly, RINGS/RING GROOVES.
2) carbon buildup on the RINGS will result in poor compression.
3) poor compression results in oil consumption.
It certainly won't burn holes in anything, but it is NOT good for your engine either.
It is ALWAYS best to use the LOWEST that is safe for your engine. This engine is safe for 87, so it is best to use THAT.
In addition to running better/stronger/longer/more reliably, you will have lower fuel consumption and fuel costs less.
As for 94...
Bad idea.
1) it won't burn as thoroughly, which means that you'll get more carbon buildup on the piston, combustion chamber, plugs, valves, exhaust, and most importantly, RINGS/RING GROOVES.
2) carbon buildup on the RINGS will result in poor compression.
3) poor compression results in oil consumption.
It certainly won't burn holes in anything, but it is NOT good for your engine either.
It is ALWAYS best to use the LOWEST that is safe for your engine. This engine is safe for 87, so it is best to use THAT.
In addition to running better/stronger/longer/more reliably, you will have lower fuel consumption and fuel costs less.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
LB is right! 87 is best.
wienerwater
Expert
Well, whatever you think or have experienced, but mine was clean when I tore it down after running it on 94, at least in my area. Plugs were nice, jetting bang on.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Less BTUs in higher octane fuel. Higher octane fuel burns cooler and leaves more deposits in engine..
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
A little bit of information about "high octane" gasoline;
The gas is the same. Really.
They add in some COMBUSTION INHIBITORS.
There is only ONE reason they do this; high compression engines have a tendency to DETONATE (or in REAL SERIOUS cases you can get pre-ignition) as a result of higher temperature and/or pressure in the combustion chamber. By inhibiting the combustion, you ensure that no fuel burns except at the leading edge of the flame front created by the spark ignition.
Note on detonation vs. pre-ignition:
...pre-ignition is the phenomenon where the temperature and pressure get high enough fast enough that it actually burns before the spark happens.
...detonation is the phenomenon where the normal combustion process results in a pressure increase BEYOND the flame front that is sufficient to ignite fuel, which then starts to burn before the flame front reaches it. This results in a combustion that is UNEVEN and TOO FAST.
The gas is the same. Really.
They add in some COMBUSTION INHIBITORS.
There is only ONE reason they do this; high compression engines have a tendency to DETONATE (or in REAL SERIOUS cases you can get pre-ignition) as a result of higher temperature and/or pressure in the combustion chamber. By inhibiting the combustion, you ensure that no fuel burns except at the leading edge of the flame front created by the spark ignition.
Note on detonation vs. pre-ignition:
...pre-ignition is the phenomenon where the temperature and pressure get high enough fast enough that it actually burns before the spark happens.
...detonation is the phenomenon where the normal combustion process results in a pressure increase BEYOND the flame front that is sufficient to ignite fuel, which then starts to burn before the flame front reaches it. This results in a combustion that is UNEVEN and TOO FAST.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
wienerwater said:
Would that be before or after you installed the turbo?
wienerwater
Expert
Before the turbo.I am running C12/94 mix now.I ran 94 alone first year, but running higher boost now. I know about the higher octane and all the burning rate etc, I am just saying that I had a clean engine when I tore it down after running the 94, stock engine.
It all can come down to suppliers as well, quality etc.I have always used gas from the same pump, same refinery, always fresh and is a good name brand.Each manufacturer has their own "package" they add before delivery, as most, if not all, comes from the same refinery, such as ours 75 miles away.It is consistent and clean, similar to aircraft fuel. In our case,AV gas all comes from a refinery in Edmonton, various names at the airports pumps delivered to, but is a joint agreement between companies to keep the qulaity and consistency the same for north and northwest Canada. It has to be,it's a very government controlled standard.
I am only stating my personal experience and opinion, and not trying to undermine the basic science of it all. Maybe in your area the gas is loaded with a different package, different results. I know of 1 local brand I would not go near, as it is loaded with ethanol for years, high octane, but crap to use.
Anyway, thats my blurb for the day.
It all can come down to suppliers as well, quality etc.I have always used gas from the same pump, same refinery, always fresh and is a good name brand.Each manufacturer has their own "package" they add before delivery, as most, if not all, comes from the same refinery, such as ours 75 miles away.It is consistent and clean, similar to aircraft fuel. In our case,AV gas all comes from a refinery in Edmonton, various names at the airports pumps delivered to, but is a joint agreement between companies to keep the qulaity and consistency the same for north and northwest Canada. It has to be,it's a very government controlled standard.
I am only stating my personal experience and opinion, and not trying to undermine the basic science of it all. Maybe in your area the gas is loaded with a different package, different results. I know of 1 local brand I would not go near, as it is loaded with ethanol for years, high octane, but crap to use.
Anyway, thats my blurb for the day.
wienerwater
Expert
I was waiting for some kind of darting response, as to running 94 before the turbo and after. Explain if you can, what direction the question was headed, as I had no issues either way as far as buildup etc.
Riceburner
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As I recall, the Apex makes 2-3 more HP on 87 than it does on 91 and since the 87 is more explosive / hotter cold starts are easier.
Less HP and more expensive makes no sense to me.
Im an 87 guy except on the Blown RX 1.
Less HP and more expensive makes no sense to me.
Im an 87 guy except on the Blown RX 1.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
wienerwater said:
If the 94 was entirely after the turbo, then you would have answered your own question -- higher compression demands less fuel volatility.
But as it happens, you're running a mountain sled anyways, probably higher elevations, most definitely I would guess that you run it harder than a typical shorty (and hotter) and this is confirmed by the fact that you went with a turbo, and probably had it jetted pretty lean to keep up with higher altitudes. All this will contribute to the engine keeping clean.
