Service Manual Omission

[stewartb]

I thought it odd that the service manual's instructions for oil replacement talks of adding 2 quarts to the oil tank and nothing else. There is a notation that the capacity is 3 qts +, but there's no mention of adding any oil through the rocker box cover, and it would be easy to overlook the capacity note. Of course there's also no mention of removing the battery to access the rocker cover filler, either. My local dealer's mechanic was the one to tell me about adding 1 qt in the engine, 2 in the tank, and then top as necessary after running the engine and filling the new filter.

I'd call that omission from the manual fairly important. Does anyone have a new '09 manual and has the oil replacement instruction been edited? Or are guys simply filling the remote tank and calling it good?

Stewart

 

[Grimm]

I too found it odd that there was no mention of adding oil to the top of the engine, which contradicts the manual for my previous Vector.

I ended up just adding oil to the external tank until the level was reached. Each time when I'd first start it the next day, the oil light would come on and I had to add some oil each time. I started to worry that I was losing oil somewhere, but eventually the oil light would stop coming on when I'd start it.

 

[towerrigger]

I ran across a problem with our phazer when changng the oil. First I added to the engine through the rocker cover then topped it up in the external tank. I ended up with a air lock between the tank and engine. I had to pressurize the tank to push the air lock through. This could possibly be why they don't say to add oil through rocker cover?

 

[stewartb]

I was hoping somebody here would have a definitive answer. I added a quart through the rocker box and 2 1/2 into the tank. I did not crack the pressure bolt to watch for seepage. I started it and let it run for a couple of minutes and felt heat in the tank, so I knew oil was circulating. I never saw even a flicker from the oil light.

Since the local service manager specifically instructed me to do this I'll continue to do so until I hear a reason not to. I think Yamaha should amend their service instructions in any case to clear up the matter.

Do any of you loosen the pressure bolt? With the drawing provided in the manual it took a few minutes to decide what the hell they were depicting. Then I blew it off because my universal driver would have done more harm than good to that bolt head.

SB

 

[arteeex]

No definitive answer here either, but the sled uses a dry sump system so there's only a small amount (something like 6-8 ounces) of oil in the motor during operation. Adding a quart directly into the motor wouldn't be my approach.

Both the owner’s and service manual reference removing the cap on the cam cover, but I’d guess this is to help vent while draining the case. Neither manual indicates adding oil thru the cam cover. The owner’s manual says to add 2-quarts, start it up and let run for a couple minutes, and then top off the reservoir as necessary. This last step isn’t specifically spelled out in the service manual.

 

[stewartb]

Have you ever drained your crankcase? There was more than 6-8 oz of oil in mine. Or so it seemed.

I'm not arguing I'm right. That's the point of the discussion. I'd like to know!

Stewart

 

[arteeex]

I got my info from a service guy at shop near me. I agree that, along with the filter volume, there's maybe more than the 8-oz, but not much more - certainly not a quart.

With the dry sump system oil in the case has already done its job. The oil pump is pulling "fresh" oil from the reservoir and pushing it through the motor and then picking it up in the case and sending back to the reservoir to complete the cycle.

My guess is your original concern was about starting up with out oil directly in the motor. Because the oil pump is direct drive, oil will be moving through the system on startup. I think if you add a quart to the case there may be a risk of this oil foaming before the sump can evacuate the excess to the reservoir.

Looking at the service manual the procedure sends you back to the Oil Level Inspection section after adding the two quarts to the reservoir – from there the procedure is the same as that spelled out in the owner’s manual, which is the way that I’ve done oil changes.

 

[stewartb]

So if the total added oil requirement with a new filter is 3.38 US qts and you only add 2 qts to the tank, where would the other 1.38 qts go? And the 3.38 qts is what you add at oil change. The actual capacity is over 4 qts so presumably the difference between 3.38 and 4.12 qts is residual oil that remains in the engine. I guess I should have measured the crankcase oil.

To refill two XTXs after draining the oil and changing filters required 7 full quarts of new oil.

SB

 

[arteeex]

Nope. Put the additional oil in the reservoir. The initial two quarts is just to get the party started. After running it a few minutes the filter and cleaner will be full and the level in the reservoir will be down by that volume. You'll be able to add about 1.38 quarts to the reservoir. Like I said, with the dry sump system very little oil is in the motor during operation so running the motor with two quarts not a problem. I expect running three+ quarts is just to allow for dwell time and heat transfer while the oil is in the reservoir.

Check out the total volume difference between the owner's and service manual. That's a little weird. But just stop filling it when you hit the "H" on the dip stick thingy.

 

[stewartb]

No thanks, I'll stick with the advice of my local service manager. I've built a few engines in my time. The math here doesn't add up, and adding a quart into the engines and 2 into the tanks worked well on two machines last night. Besides, if you're following instructions and opening the rocker box cap you have to remove the battery anyway.

I'm inclined to believe Yamaha left some things out of their service instructions. Does anyone have a VK Professional? What's the oil change procedure for that sled? Same basic engine, right?

Stewart

 

[loudelectronics]

Same as the quads. Fill the rezzy, run it, let sit, check it, add it and repeat. There is enough residual in on the cams to keep them lubed. It is not like you are revving the snot out of it.

 

[Yamadooed]

The extra 1.38 qt space shows up after you prime the lines fill the filter which is done by start'n it... On mine the Napa/wix filters actually puts it closer to 1.5qts mark... Seems weird to fire it up when you know its gonna be over a qt low but try'n to stuff the extra 1.5 in the tank would be bad and the manuals are written to be sort of goof proof ...

 

[Crewchief47]

Step #16 refers you back to the 'check engine oil level' procedure after putting the 2 quarts in and replacing all caps. I've never put oil inot the valve cover on the vectors(Dads and Uncles) or my Nytro and never had to check for flow at the bleed screw.

 

[marsh14]

What kind of crazy funnel do you use to get oil in the head cap? There is no room. Changed mine last night.