woodchk454
Extreme
I started trying to bring my engagement down for some reason it was at 5100 this season (no changes). Last season was 4600. My sled has always been hard on belts. I had a hauck orange spring and adjustable ramps. I was told go back to the stock spring and remove shims. Then was told add weight to the middle hole. (was also told to remove weight) wich I did and my engagement is still around 4800-4900. I add what amounts to 2xs the weight of last season JUST to see if it made a diff. Nothing Ive had the primary apart 10x and no riding yet. I posted earlier in the season that my C-C is short by 1mm from spec and that my secondary is ok cept it does slide on shaft a little to far. Shims on order. I can rock the moveable sheave on the primary a little so I looked and there is some wear in the guides pics as follows. Is it possible that my primary is junk I want to ride but cant afford any more belt trouble. While trying to figure this out I can smell belt every time I test ride it. Is it possible that the 1mm short and overtravel on 2ondary are causing it. If so why now and not last season. I am ready to part company with my Hauck stuff and go to Ullmer but not till I get my problems sorted out. Ive also said before Im new to clutch work so any and all suggestion are more than appreciated.
Attachments
woodchk454
Extreme
As an update to my post, I reinstalled my stock ramps, So now my primary is completely stock (no shims either) and still engages arount 4200 rpm.
,jim
,jim
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Engagement is totally adjusted in the Primary clutch. Too high of engagement will eat belts. A lot of these racing kits do not work well out on the trail (e.g. too many engagements, etc.)
I love my Stage II out on the trail.
What spring do you have in the Primary? A Yellow-Silver-Yellow is Stock. This should engage at 3,400 - 3800 RPMS. No shims in the "spring line-up" are required. Is your stock Primary Spring new?
Your clutch pictures look normal. The sliders can be changed, if there is excessive slop between the tower and spider's sliders. Max clearance should be 0.0118" between the slider and the casting. If there are rough spots in the casting, they can be smoothed with 400 grit wet sandpaper. If you are doing this, do not over do it. You only need the tower smooth, not every dimple needs to come out, etc.
With the Primary Spring out of the clutch, does the movable sheave move freely on the shaft of the other sheave? There is a bushing in the Movable Sheave. If the Movable Sheave is getting stuck on the other sheave's shaft, it is possible that your RPMS at engagement could be affected (i.e. higher than expected).
I love my Stage II out on the trail.
What spring do you have in the Primary? A Yellow-Silver-Yellow is Stock. This should engage at 3,400 - 3800 RPMS. No shims in the "spring line-up" are required. Is your stock Primary Spring new?
Your clutch pictures look normal. The sliders can be changed, if there is excessive slop between the tower and spider's sliders. Max clearance should be 0.0118" between the slider and the casting. If there are rough spots in the casting, they can be smoothed with 400 grit wet sandpaper. If you are doing this, do not over do it. You only need the tower smooth, not every dimple needs to come out, etc.
With the Primary Spring out of the clutch, does the movable sheave move freely on the shaft of the other sheave? There is a bushing in the Movable Sheave. If the Movable Sheave is getting stuck on the other sheave's shaft, it is possible that your RPMS at engagement could be affected (i.e. higher than expected).
woodchk454
Extreme
Len thanks for tackling this, my spring has a pink slash on it and is the one that i removed soon after buying sled new. Spring has a max of 1500 miles on it in a stock clutch environment. My sled used to engage @ 4400 rpm, seems like a lot of owners are w/o killing belts. What do you think about the drastic change in weight I did in the ramps with little change. And now with it all back to stock still @ 4200. I will try to check spider clearance tomorrow. My moveable sheave will hang up if picked up on 1 side and not grasped 180 degrees apart. Would love a stage II but gotta figure out my issues first.
,jim
,jim
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
The title of this post is "Still Having Engagement Problems"
Engagement RPM is the Primary Spring.
If you want to go lower on engagement, I would get the stock Spring Yellow-Silver-Yellow.
Or, ... The Orange-Silver-Orange will bring you in at 4,000 - 4,400 RPM.
Or, ... Are you now satisfied with the engagement you are getting?
A pink mark on the Primary Spring I can't tell you about. That is the trouble with some of the after-market products. You never really know what you have.
Regarding what you are calling "Ramps;" Are you referring to the Primary Clutch Weights?
On the Primary Clutch Weights: Tip weight changes affect RPM at or near top end. Heel weight changes affect initial shifting RPMs. Middle weight changes affect mid-shift RPM. You put in the weight necessary to set the engine RPM as you shift out to full shift.
For example if you double the middle weight, you should see the RPM drop at mid-shift (e.g. 60 - 80 MPH)
The only definitive way to tell if you have a problem with the Primary Clutch Movable Sheave's Bushing is to remove the Spider and inspect the bushing and shaft. If it slides freely when picking up with two hands, you may be O.K. Does the sheave move much in a side-to-side direction on the shaft? If not, you should be O.K.
When I had 4200 engagement, it cut my belt life in half. But, we have a lot of stop signs around here.
Engagement RPM is the Primary Spring.
If you want to go lower on engagement, I would get the stock Spring Yellow-Silver-Yellow.
Or, ... The Orange-Silver-Orange will bring you in at 4,000 - 4,400 RPM.
Or, ... Are you now satisfied with the engagement you are getting?
A pink mark on the Primary Spring I can't tell you about. That is the trouble with some of the after-market products. You never really know what you have.
Regarding what you are calling "Ramps;" Are you referring to the Primary Clutch Weights?
On the Primary Clutch Weights: Tip weight changes affect RPM at or near top end. Heel weight changes affect initial shifting RPMs. Middle weight changes affect mid-shift RPM. You put in the weight necessary to set the engine RPM as you shift out to full shift.
For example if you double the middle weight, you should see the RPM drop at mid-shift (e.g. 60 - 80 MPH)
The only definitive way to tell if you have a problem with the Primary Clutch Movable Sheave's Bushing is to remove the Spider and inspect the bushing and shaft. If it slides freely when picking up with two hands, you may be O.K. Does the sheave move much in a side-to-side direction on the shaft? If not, you should be O.K.
When I had 4200 engagement, it cut my belt life in half. But, we have a lot of stop signs around here.
woodchk454
Extreme
Len I know the title of the post I created it. 
When i contact the owner of the dealership where i purchased sled and clutch parts and he tells me move this weight here or there and this spring will be just what you want who am I to argue??.
That being said I really appreciate your help and knowledge and thank you for taking the time to share both.
I think Im happy with my engagement but have to question whether my cluch is ok BECAUSE of the rpm. The paint has since worn off my spring but it can only be the stock spring (I only have 2 springs). I was wrong to say it was pink since I can no longer remember or verify. If stock is Y-S-Y then that is what it must be.
Yes by ramps I mean primary weights sorry for the confusion I ve always associated them with ramp.
If by side to side you mean hold 1 side of clutch up while pushing down on the side 180 deg. to create a pivoting motion with shaft of the fixed sheave as a fulcrum then yes I do have some (Im thinking possiby more than normal but as we both know by now Im not a Yamaha Tech). Iwill check the clearance you gave me in the am as Im headed to work and the clutch is in the house warming up.
Can you tell me if there is a spec fot the bushing and the shaft in the primary I think Im going to take apart and inspect just to be safe.
I know about the stop sign where you ride as that is where I do most of my riding. Im really not happy about missing all the good snow I have in my own backyard to ride in, would sure beat the 3 1/2 hr drive to ride if I can get it going.
Thanks again for all you have done for me and all the others on this site.
When i contact the owner of the dealership where i purchased sled and clutch parts and he tells me move this weight here or there and this spring will be just what you want who am I to argue??.
That being said I really appreciate your help and knowledge and thank you for taking the time to share both.
I think Im happy with my engagement but have to question whether my cluch is ok BECAUSE of the rpm. The paint has since worn off my spring but it can only be the stock spring (I only have 2 springs). I was wrong to say it was pink since I can no longer remember or verify. If stock is Y-S-Y then that is what it must be.
Yes by ramps I mean primary weights sorry for the confusion I ve always associated them with ramp.
If by side to side you mean hold 1 side of clutch up while pushing down on the side 180 deg. to create a pivoting motion with shaft of the fixed sheave as a fulcrum then yes I do have some (Im thinking possiby more than normal but as we both know by now Im not a Yamaha Tech). Iwill check the clearance you gave me in the am as Im headed to work and the clutch is in the house warming up.
Can you tell me if there is a spec fot the bushing and the shaft in the primary I think Im going to take apart and inspect just to be safe.
I know about the stop sign where you ride as that is where I do most of my riding. Im really not happy about missing all the good snow I have in my own backyard to ride in, would sure beat the 3 1/2 hr drive to ride if I can get it going.
Thanks again for all you have done for me and all the others on this site.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
No problem here. Just trying to figure out what you are dealing with.
If that is a stock spring, your engagement should be lower. (i.e. 3600 + or - 200 RPM.)
The Free length of Primary Spring should be 3.44". You might want to consider measuring this to ensure the spring is still good.
Also, stock weights are not easily adjustable. Do you have the stock weights or something else for weights? If you have something else, what are they and what weight setting do you have? What is the supplier's recommended setting?
Have you inspected the weight's bushings?
Are the Rollers rolling smoothly? Have you inspected the roller bushings?
I attached the exploded view of the Primary.
There is no clearance spec for the Sliding Sheave Bushing to Spider Shaft fit. For inspection, they do mention looking for unsymmetrical wear/damage on these types of bushings.
It takes special tools to remove Spider. Also, the Spider is left-handed thread. You may have to heat the Spider to Fixed Sheave joint to loosen the previously applied locktite.
If you install a new bushing, you should put some locktite between the sheave and bushing.
If that is a stock spring, your engagement should be lower. (i.e. 3600 + or - 200 RPM.)
The Free length of Primary Spring should be 3.44". You might want to consider measuring this to ensure the spring is still good.
Also, stock weights are not easily adjustable. Do you have the stock weights or something else for weights? If you have something else, what are they and what weight setting do you have? What is the supplier's recommended setting?
Have you inspected the weight's bushings?
Are the Rollers rolling smoothly? Have you inspected the roller bushings?
I attached the exploded view of the Primary.
There is no clearance spec for the Sliding Sheave Bushing to Spider Shaft fit. For inspection, they do mention looking for unsymmetrical wear/damage on these types of bushings.
It takes special tools to remove Spider. Also, the Spider is left-handed thread. You may have to heat the Spider to Fixed Sheave joint to loosen the previously applied locktite.
If you install a new bushing, you should put some locktite between the sheave and bushing.
woodchk454
Extreme
Now that spring dimension helps. The 2 springs I have are nowhere close to it. And these are the ONLY 2 spring my sled came with new (1 in sled and 1 in grass drag kit).
1 I thought was stock length 4.025 wire dia. .226"
1 that came in grass kit 3.812 wire dia. .236"
I do have stock weights and some from Pat Hauck (though even he cant or wont tell me what they are). Stock ones are back in.
Rollers operate freely.
After all this it is my spring (like you suggested) being the wrong one.
On my way to work yesterday called a friend that got a viper from Hauck also, I asked bout his stock primary spring and he said Pat never gave it to him (came with clutch kit installed). My kit wasnt installed but I now assume I never got my stock spring.
Thanks again for all your patience. I look forward to buying you lunch and a beer on my next trip up.
1 I thought was stock length 4.025 wire dia. .226"
1 that came in grass kit 3.812 wire dia. .236"
I do have stock weights and some from Pat Hauck (though even he cant or wont tell me what they are). Stock ones are back in.
Rollers operate freely.
After all this it is my spring (like you suggested) being the wrong one.
On my way to work yesterday called a friend that got a viper from Hauck also, I asked bout his stock primary spring and he said Pat never gave it to him (came with clutch kit installed). My kit wasnt installed but I now assume I never got my stock spring.
Thanks again for all your patience. I look forward to buying you lunch and a beer on my next trip up.
woodchk454
Extreme
Orderd a new spring from peacock will be in on Friday. Here on Saturday.... Hopefully.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
I got a ride going with Wideopenorbroke Saturday. Want to come along? We are going up to Maple City (Up by Traverse City). Will be a 200+ mile day. Meeting at my place at 0800 hrs. Leaving on sleds from my place.
woodchk454
Extreme
If I get my sled together I may just be there.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
I have a realtively new stock spring you can have. I'll be home Firday night.
