Submarining in powder and sidehilling problems? Help.....

[1FunRX1]

I hade a real problem last year while in deep snow, I ride a Silver Mountain and if I'd stop and try to restart while in deep snow my machine would just sink in, or dig a real big trench. It didn't matter what I did to avoid it, it would do it every time. I tried differant power settings and everything I could think of to avoid it but all it would do is dig down deeper. It seemed like it was just plain to heavy and wouldn't plain out ontop of the snow, it would submarine through it then finally pop up ontop of the snow. I didn't like it at all.
The second problem I had was sidehilling. When ever on a sidehill the machine just wanted to run down the hill. I could never get the machine to roll over on it's side and run up the hill. It just seemed to front end heavy, but was hopeful it was just a mushy front end.
I've been riding all my life and am hoping somebody else had similar problems and good results with fixes. Any help or sugestions you could give in the two matters would be greatly appreciated. I love the machine, just hate the characteristics I've been experiencing. Thanks in advance.

 

[spray25]

First what conditions were you in when trying to start out in powder? ie facing uphill, downhill, sidehill?

Here are some things that will help you:

First, starting in deep powder:
Make sure you have your suspensions set for good weight transfer. The limiter strap should be all the way out (lose). You don't want the rear suspension to tight either. Check where you have the preload set. I have found that medium to soft works best.

Install the transfer kit from MPI ($50). It helps a great deal. Beware that it may also promote ratcheting though. The next thing, and much more expensive, would be go to a 159. If you do that make sure you install extroverts while you are there. Yes the RX is a little heavy, it also has a fairly narrow front end. This does cause some fornt end flotation problems at times, especially when going down hill. These ideas should help. Some with the Rev have complained of some of the same problems when going down hill because it too is narrower than most sleds out there.

Sidehilling:

How much do you weigh? At times the RX can be a little challanging to get up on it's side, but once there it holds it well. Check your suspension again. Back the front preload WAY down. I would have to go measure again, but I think I only have 5/8" of threads up top, maybe less. The above ideas will hep also as you will be able to use the throtttle to reduce how much weight is on the skis. Next remove the swaybar. It makes it so much easier to throw the sled over. You will sware that you just lost 100 lbs off the front end. You will lose some trail manners, but it's not bad at all. If you are a true mountain rider you won't care. If you just can't handle the looser feel on the trail go buy some 3/8' clevis pins and use those in place of the bolts that hold the links on BOTH sides of the swaybar. That way you can have the swaybar attached while burning the trail and in less than 30 seconds you can detach it. Contrary to popular belief you MUST detach BOTH sides of the swaybar.

I hope this helps beyond these ideas the next thing to do is lose sled weight. I have lost almost 60 pounds and would be happy to share info if you decide to pursue weight loss.

 

[1FunRX1]

Hey Spray,

I weigh about 215 lbs, and have never had any problems with a machine sidehilling before. It never really took much to horse a machine over on it's side.

So do you remove the sway bars altogether or just disconnect both sides? You say you will loose some trail manners, how bad? I don't care about the darting and softness, just don't want to be uncontrolable. The weight really feels like 100 lbs? That 's outstanding if it works, I'll hav to try it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Did you switch to a 159"? If so how do you like it?

Do you own a mountain? Hav you changed gearing at all? I would like to see a little more top end, I'm still getting walked on by the 800's, I'd like to leave them in my snow dust.

Thanks again

 

[spray25]

Fun,

I removed mine completely. The handling is by no means out of control. You just a little body roll in some of the sharper corners.

You'll notice the diferrence right away. I did have my MPI weight transfer kit in prior to removing the swaybar so part of the 100 pound feeling may be the combo. Seriously consider the kit. It is a great $50 investment.

Yes, I went 159. I LOVE IT!!! The sled has plenty of torque to pull it and the extra flotation is just what the RX-1 needs. I used the Hartman kit, but frankly I think I would go MPI if I was doing it again. Remember if you do go 159 install the extroverts while you are there.

I actually geared down slightly and I have not run with a single 800 that can keep up with me on the top end. NONE. The two Cat 900's I run with don't have the top end either. Occasionally someone will beat me out of the hole, but I catch them before long. I run with some well "tuned" sleds.

What are your RPMs like? What elevation are you running at? What do you have for clutching and what jets are you running?

 

[1FunRX1]

Spray, So you can run with the 900's even with the 159?

as far as my jetting a clutch I am bone stock. I kind of wanted to wait and let the bugs get worked out before I started messing with stuff. Any suggestion?

How many tooth gear did you gear down to?

I'm going to do the transfer kit and 159"

My rpm's are slightly over 9000 and the elevation is from 1000 to 8000 feet.

Have you had any problems with ice or snow buildup on the throats of the carbs causing the machine to cut out? Or have you had a problem with your machine cutting out while hill climbing? When it gets real steep my does and it is not fun.

 

[spray25]

Yes I can run with the 900's. We did some drags about midway through last year. There were 2 900's, one stock, and one with a can and some cluthcing, both were 151's. They both got about a sled to sled and a half on me out of the hole, but by the end of the run which was only about 250 yards I had closed the gap to less than a half a sled and was gaining.

I rode with the canned Cat quite a bit last year and we were always neck and neck.

You run at some pretty extreme elevation ranges. Is there an elevation you spend the bulk of your time at? I run 5000-8000 ft with most of my time spent around 7000.

Is the 9000 RPM on the flat or climbing in deep powder? If it is on the flat you have something desperately wrong and if it is climbing you need some tweaking. You are 1200 rpm's from where you should be. That's a lot!!

I'm thinking that you probably are not actually stock on clutching...... The mountain came with no weights in the clutch and you would be over reving if that were the case. I am running the stock setup with aluminum rivets with hole in both holes. With the gearing change I am over revving slightly on the flats at about 10,500 (only after getting almost 1500 miles on the sled) and pulling about 9550-9600 when climbing in bottomless powder. Climbing on harder snow I pull 10,000ish.

As for gearing I went up to a 40 tooth on the bottom (larger) gear. I didn't see much change. I gained a few rpm's and lost 2-3 MPH on the top end.

For jets I was running 132.5's untill I bought a White Knuckle exhaust. Now I am running 135's. Yammies jetting chart is a little rich. Jetting isn't as crucial in a 4 stroke, but it is still to rich. By the way I picked up another 2-300 rpms while climbing by installing the White Knuckle so now I am up around 9800. I would DEFINATELY verify your clutching and jetting.

I have NEVER had a problem with icing up. I have even removed the tool box from the font of the sled. Are you 100% sure that your boots are 100% on? They can be a real bitch to get on there correctly.

Yes I have experienced the cutting out. Yes it is scary!! There is a fix for it. New float bowls. Start bugging your dealer ASAP, cause the supply is limited. (they are free by the way) I got the very first set. They were actually one of the first 5 sets that were made in a sand cast. When you install them you will discover a new problem. When hot your sled won't want to start very well, especially if you roll it over. The cure is to install a shut off valve on the coolant line to your carbs. For some reason the deeper bowls cause the fuel to "boil" over and flood the sled. You can assemble a simple shut off at your local hardware store for about $4 or buy one for a ski-doo for $15. DO NOT buy Yammies. It is no different and it is like $40!!! Run the shut off at about 1/3 open. If you open it to much it will start hard if it is to far closed the carbs will ice up and it won't want to idle. I adjusted mine about 5 times the first day and then never touched it again all season.

I hope this helps. Kepp the questions coming and I will try my best to answer them.

 

[1FunRX1]

Ya I think your right, I'm not exactly running stock clutch set up but the setup my dealership sugested when I bought it. I think they installed a rivit or so.

The RPM range I was talking about was on the hill. On the flats I'm running about 10000-10200. My dealership suggested switching to a 23 tooth gear and it will help out a ton. They say I should be able to eat the 800's and at worst case run with the 900's.

We spend a good majority of the time riding at 5000-6000 feet. I have not messed with my jetting at all.

I was looking at that exhaust that Mountain Performance has, my dealer sells it and I have seen and heard a few machines with it installed. Who sells the White Knuckle? Do you have any inputs?

Do you have any picures of the carb heat shut off valves. Where did you install them? I had my machine over once and I had a real problem getting it fired back up, any suggestions? Will the valves help that? One guy said to open the choke about half way and crank it till it starts. I haven't had it over again to try it. I was going to put a lighter battery in but after the eppisode I had, I think I need all the battery I can get.

Ya I'm posative my carb boots are all the way on, as I had a fuel pump go out and the dealership changed it. They didn't get it on all the way the first time and it ran like S@#& Until I figured it out.

Hey thanks for all your help on my questions, you've been a great help. I'll need to look into the carb float bowls, and get my dealership to order a set, sounds like a good fix.

 

[spray25]

I personally would not go to the 23 top. That is gearing you up. I went to a 21/42 to gear down. Are you at the 21/40 now? For your elevation I would run it there. Check out those rivets. I'm betting you are still a little heavy. I would try the 13.3 Alum with hole. If that revs to high then intall a steel with hole in the outer.

I went with White knuckle over MPI because it is quieter. www.whiteknuckle.com

I will take some pics of the coolant shut off in the next couple of days and post them for you. It does help with restarting after a roll over. Best way to start is to hold the throttle wide open and crank it till it starts. The choke would actually make your problem worse. It is flooded, that is why it won't start. Applying choke will cut off you air supply. You should be fine with the light battery, Sled Nazi has the little $20 one and has had no problems. Mine is a little stronger but cost 12X's more. The only time I was sweating it was when I first got the new float bowls and before I had the coolant shut off.

 

[ABBY]

Carb Float Bowls

SPRAY

Did you change your float bowls or did you have the dealer
do it?
I need to change mine.

ABBY

 

[spray25]

I changed them myself, but your dealer will do it free of charge if you want.

The biggest challange is the boots on the carbs.

 

[1FunRX1]

Hey Spray, did you install fuel shutoff's as well? I know in the book it says do not tow your machine with fuel in the tank above the level of the carbs. Some say it was O.K. and others put them on. Not sure what to do.

 

[spray25]

I did not install a fuel shut off. I trailered more last year than I ever have and no problems.

 

[Jonny Rocket]

One other thing that might help with the sidehilling would be to get a set of Simmons skies. They help the front end float a lot better. Just my .02.

 

[spray25]

I forgot that one. Good suggestion. Thanks J. Did you get that tub painted blue yet? :lol:

 

[1FunRX1]

Great idea! Might as well give that a shot while I'm at it. Had a pair on my 800 Summit and loved them, just wasn't sure how they'd feel on the RX-1.

Hey Black, how's life in Spokane? I'm originally from there and a good majority of my family is still there. I'm currently Chugiak Alaska and absolutly love it. We can ride 7 months out of the year. Snow has been off and on the past few years but I have nothing to complain about, it could always be worse.

Hey Spray, I tried to find WhiteKnuckle.com but couldn't find it. I did find WhitKnuckleracing.com but didn't see anything on sled exhaust. Did you get the same performance out of it and what was it priced like? I think the MPI was rate to increase HP by 4 and a Dbl increase of 8 and shed 11 LBS. I like it just don't like all the noise. One of the things I like the most about the RX-1 is how quiet and stealthy it is.