Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Are they any more or less reliable than turbos?
I've been told that superchargers don't like moisture. Is this a concern?
I know each kit is different but are there usually any major weight differences between the two?
I've been told that superchargers don't like moisture. Is this a concern?
I know each kit is different but are there usually any major weight differences between the two?
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
I am an Ontario trail rider. We have lots of long wide open trails hard running at high speed etc...
There is a fine line or so I am starting to see with any boosted sled. It depends on its intention.
For me the SC is awesome I run the 1:1 ratio pulles spinning 10,800-11,000 rpm making close to 10 psi of boost using the 7 psi pulleys.
It is not a get on it and hold it on the bar for miles setup if you want that leave it stock. Its good for a decent distance IE 2000-2500' WOT then get out of it the IC starts to get to hot along with that increasing inlet temps etc and detonation starts.
We ride hard and fast and on open trails 70 mph curising etc on larger areas lots of chances to get up over 100 easily.
I trail rode mine all last winter long I had my sled stock for 1 weekend and did the SC install.
1500 miles at 5psi and 1500 miles at 8-10 psi. No problems but I do run the standard boost/WB/and knock sensor. I belive the knock sensor saved my bacon a few times.
As far as moisture your gonna have to elaborate I have ridden in 4' of fresh powder blowing all though my sled.
For my preference the SC is an easier install less sled modding makes "decent" power on a stock motor which is a bonus if you deal the sled every 2 years like I do.
I would guess weight to be about the same for the parts a turbo does eliminate the muffler but to get past the trail cops you need to fabricate something up. None of the turbo's that Im aware of have any kind of muffler and something has to be made up which will cost you from their advertised HP.
I'll be straight up with you all day for anything you like just ask. I have honestly never ever been impressed with anything aftermarket until I bought an MPI supercharger.
There is a fine line or so I am starting to see with any boosted sled. It depends on its intention.
For me the SC is awesome I run the 1:1 ratio pulles spinning 10,800-11,000 rpm making close to 10 psi of boost using the 7 psi pulleys.
It is not a get on it and hold it on the bar for miles setup if you want that leave it stock. Its good for a decent distance IE 2000-2500' WOT then get out of it the IC starts to get to hot along with that increasing inlet temps etc and detonation starts.
We ride hard and fast and on open trails 70 mph curising etc on larger areas lots of chances to get up over 100 easily.
I trail rode mine all last winter long I had my sled stock for 1 weekend and did the SC install.
1500 miles at 5psi and 1500 miles at 8-10 psi. No problems but I do run the standard boost/WB/and knock sensor. I belive the knock sensor saved my bacon a few times.
As far as moisture your gonna have to elaborate I have ridden in 4' of fresh powder blowing all though my sled.
For my preference the SC is an easier install less sled modding makes "decent" power on a stock motor which is a bonus if you deal the sled every 2 years like I do.
I would guess weight to be about the same for the parts a turbo does eliminate the muffler but to get past the trail cops you need to fabricate something up. None of the turbo's that Im aware of have any kind of muffler and something has to be made up which will cost you from their advertised HP.
I'll be straight up with you all day for anything you like just ask. I have honestly never ever been impressed with anything aftermarket until I bought an MPI supercharger.
HYFLYR
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Mcxpress now offers mufflers for their turbo's.
I like the idea of turbos better. There has to be a reason only one supercharger is being made and that is by mountain performance, at least this is my opinion. Im sure a charger has its stengths and all i just have my doubts about them. I will be going with a turbo this year as i have talked to every comapany building boosted this or that for yamaha's and they all say their kit this and that but at the end of the day it boils down to what you want as a individual.
I like the idea of turbos better. There has to be a reason only one supercharger is being made and that is by mountain performance, at least this is my opinion. Im sure a charger has its stengths and all i just have my doubts about them. I will be going with a turbo this year as i have talked to every comapany building boosted this or that for yamaha's and they all say their kit this and that but at the end of the day it boils down to what you want as a individual.
Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Thanks for the replys. Why exactly don't you like the supercharger option Hiflyr? IE what are your doubts.
Very informative a7m266d. How long did your install take?
Very informative a7m266d. How long did your install take?
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Yamahnator said:
My install took me about 4 evenings working after I got finshed dinner etc... I usually started around 6 and worked until 10 pm. I was done on the 3rd night with the charger portion the 4th night was just doing the Wideband isntall and boost gauge.
A turbo will make more power there is no question in my mind of that on pump fuel anways with adjustable boost which is a bonus. However there is more work involved and you loose some gas from the tank not the best for a trail rider that needs to make the next fuel stop. You also have no muffler other then MC xpress one that I saw did have a muffler option. I know for a fact we couldn't get away with that here in ontario it would be a ticket forsure.
The turbo is for the guy that wants to be KING of everyting and only another turbo sled will take him down. The supercharger is for the guy that will be happy around the 220-230 hp mark on pump fuel (at least Im told that power). I am happy with my setup no question about it and for not having to touch the motor thats another bonus when I turn my sled back in.
Next time around though I will be spending the cake and doings pistons and rods and running a big turbo but it will be expensive. Motor work + fabbing up my own muffler to get it quiet + doing somethign with the air intake to keep it stealth (I want an alpine turbo) I was told by the guys at alpine if you didn't run the filter out for outside air and plumed it in under the hood you could expect to loose 60hp. I don't want my gauge cluster on my handle bars so I opted out on the turbo for this season. They are working on some kind of pod to relocate the gauge cluster back and draw the air in from behind the cluster. That is something I would then be interested in.
I will get an Alpine turbo when I do go that way after looking at that and the MC xpress but then again CPR will have something by next year as well which may change everything again.
HYFLYR
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Availability, Tuning, mileage and personal preference.
There are alot of turbo builders and turbo' available(Garret, Mitsubiushi, Aerocharger, etc) and only one supercharger and thats MPI. I know there was someone else building supers but nothing really ever came of him. I like the options i have if i want a mid mount, rear mount, front mount depending on my riding style.
Tuning-Adjusting turbo boost is a simple task, just turn it up or down, takes a minute or two. Supers need to replace pully's and mess with belts and so on.
I have no first hand experience with mileage on a super but from people i know that run them say their turbo buddies get a little better mileagebut this is just hear say. Maybe becausethe turbos make more power so the super's have to try harder to keep up. HAHA just joking guys take it easy.
In my opinion its all personal preference and style of riding that should deterine what each person likes. I'll take the turbo.
There are alot of turbo builders and turbo' available(Garret, Mitsubiushi, Aerocharger, etc) and only one supercharger and thats MPI. I know there was someone else building supers but nothing really ever came of him. I like the options i have if i want a mid mount, rear mount, front mount depending on my riding style.
Tuning-Adjusting turbo boost is a simple task, just turn it up or down, takes a minute or two. Supers need to replace pully's and mess with belts and so on.
I have no first hand experience with mileage on a super but from people i know that run them say their turbo buddies get a little better mileagebut this is just hear say. Maybe becausethe turbos make more power so the super's have to try harder to keep up. HAHA just joking guys take it easy.
In my opinion its all personal preference and style of riding that should deterine what each person likes. I'll take the turbo.
BlgsRX-1mtn
TY 4 Stroke God
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I have the Stage I SC on my RX-1 mtn. The reason I went this way was; less under hood heat vs. a front mount (I usually have snow over the hood) and no lag vs a rear mount/slightly cooler intake temps.
My SC performed flawlessly all last year. If your after right at 230 HP and wont be wishing for more; this is the best kit IMHO. With that said I wish I hadn't been so impatient and waited for the Stage II.
The Stage I is great for whipping on the 2 strokes but most boosted Yamahas I ride with have more than 230HP. It would be nice to have the minumum at 240 HP with the option to switch pullies for more. The pully switching is non-issue IMHO. Once I switched to the high boost, I never thought "maybe I should go back to 5 lbs boost". It might different if I had the Stage II though.
I have found however that I can change my pullies around in about the same time it would take to make a secondary clutch adjustment (helix or spring change) if needed.
Jim
My SC performed flawlessly all last year. If your after right at 230 HP and wont be wishing for more; this is the best kit IMHO. With that said I wish I hadn't been so impatient and waited for the Stage II.
The Stage I is great for whipping on the 2 strokes but most boosted Yamahas I ride with have more than 230HP. It would be nice to have the minumum at 240 HP with the option to switch pullies for more. The pully switching is non-issue IMHO. Once I switched to the high boost, I never thought "maybe I should go back to 5 lbs boost". It might different if I had the Stage II though.
I have found however that I can change my pullies around in about the same time it would take to make a secondary clutch adjustment (helix or spring change) if needed.
Jim
KnappAttack
24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion
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2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
To answer your original question. I believe the supercharger is more reliable at this point for the EFI. Overall, there dosen't appear to be weight diff. all things being equal, exhaust muffler being in place and such. I'm not sure on the moisture question. I rode with a buddie last year with a MPI and was impresed enough to purchase one for myself this year. I've been a turbo lover for years too! I do however, have two CPR front mounts on order for the wife an I on our Rages. I think the MPI is of excellent build quality and reasonable cost to prevent others from getting into the fray. If it were a carbed machine I would go with a front mount turbo. The EFI Apex is very tight for the front mount. The install time is minimal on the MPI and makes for such a clean unit, free of excess heat and such. Decisions,decisions. Good Luck. Mike Knapp#17
How and wear you ride makes a diferrence in your selection too........
I am a mountain rider and beleive turbos to be superior for my style of riding. Trails may be a diferrent thing, I don't know that's not my gig.
a7m266d,
Will you elaborate on the detination and over heating issues? That doesn't seem like a very long pull to have those kinds of issues.
I am a mountain rider and beleive turbos to be superior for my style of riding. Trails may be a diferrent thing, I don't know that's not my gig.
a7m266d,
Will you elaborate on the detination and over heating issues? That doesn't seem like a very long pull to have those kinds of issues.
KnappAttack
24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion
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- 2023 Sidewinder LTX-LE
2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
spray 25, Yes that is so true. The turbo will maintain boost as you climb. In the midwest flatland we stay at a fairly consistent elevation. I like the fact the turbo has a much wider powerband also. I too am waiting for CPR to come out with their kit for the EFI machine. That EFI is a little hurdle that needs overcoming yet. I here from some the MCX has it perfected. Yet I see quite a few warping headers, and I just don't want all the noise and the filter in the back with all the snert flying around in the track area from our midwestern trails with a rear mount.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
spray25 said:
Im not having detontation issues at all. You just have to remember on a stock motor your not going to throw more then 8 psi at it for very long without experiencing detontation. I can squeeze about a 2500' pull out of mine at 10 psi on pump fuel anymore then that and its getting dangerous. I know this because I can watch the knock sensor and I get the odd knock in my engine if I start holding it on for 2500+ I can stay in it but it is starting to knock. The main reason for this knock is the IC is starting to get less efficient and my inlet temps are rising. Im hoping to cure this, in the upcoming season with an IC fan and a couple other tricks.
I would not hesitate to run a trail sled 121"-136" track sled in the trails at 10 psi all day long. Its the lake runs that will get ya. A SC sled at 5-7 psi is pretty much bullet proof. No under hood heat issues no noise issues, no loss of gas from a smaller tank,no headers cracking, etc. The turbo's are awesome and if I were a mountain rider that is all I would want as well. For us flat land guys its hard to beat the supercharger with how tidy it is, how quiet it is, you keep all your fuel, its a simple reversable install, its stealth, and it works awesome.
KnappAttack said:
Me thinks thou has angered thy snow gods! Might I suggest a sacrifice to once again be in their good graces? Something along the lines of an Arctic Cat should do!
A7m266d,
What you are describing is not exclusive to SC's. Any boosted motor has a point where better fuel, lower compression or other mods are needed to keep it together. Especially at lower elevations.
What you are describing is not exclusive to SC's. Any boosted motor has a point where better fuel, lower compression or other mods are needed to keep it together. Especially at lower elevations.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
spray25 said:
What are you asking in particular about the setup? I can probably answer most SC related questions.
