Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
I find Honda a very good company, but for the life of me I don’t understand some of their decisions. Take their ATVs for an example. Why do they not have locking front differentials? Why don’t they use independent rear suspension on more models? Whats with drum brakes? I guess its all about cost and profits.
No doubt they can build a quality product, but if they use their same ATV tactics in their possible snowmobile division, I want nothing to do with them.
Yamaha seem to be in the same Honda trend till about 2002 when they introduced the Grizz 660. They’ve been building true ATVs that consumers want ever since. Honda is slowly catching on while they lose ATV market share every year though. JMHO
Dan
No doubt they can build a quality product, but if they use their same ATV tactics in their possible snowmobile division, I want nothing to do with them.
Yamaha seem to be in the same Honda trend till about 2002 when they introduced the Grizz 660. They’ve been building true ATVs that consumers want ever since. Honda is slowly catching on while they lose ATV market share every year though. JMHO
Dan
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
I would be nice for the consumer if the 4-stroke revolution wakes up Honda. More competition is a good thing for the consumer. But it'll be hard to top Yamaha for quite some time.
Stormbringr1
Pro
Dano said:
Exactly. Their strategy is not consumer-centric. Bean counters are in control at Honda. They milk every last year they can out of old technology...then finally come out with something that has become the standard in the market...just as the market drivers are introducing a whole new product cycle...
If Honda were into the Snowmobile market...they'd be just introducing this model year something that would have a hard time competing with the '03 RX1 in terms of sophistication...but chances are it would be reliable...
I'll stick with Yamaha and get both. I just wish Yamaha would make a true committment to the Motorcycle touring market. Honda is really vulnerable right now to getting it's lunch eaten if someone were to come out with a credible offering to compete with the Wing...
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I think Honda might know what they are doing by sticking to the tried-and-true designs. Just personal opinion, but I, for one, won't touch an ATV with independent rear suspension. I've ridden them and don't like them. Too many parts and weak. My father has 2 Honda Foreman's. He has the money to buy ANYTHING he wants, and thats what he chose, because he likes the design. And from the numerous people i know who have chosen Honda ATVs because of their simple, rugged design, i think they do indeed have a market for these machines.
Jim
Jim
Personally even to build a Honda version of the Apex would not be rocket science for Honda. In fact I believe it will be how much do they want to improve on some things.
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
nhrxrider said:
They must be doing something right.....price out a used Honda quad, then price out the equivalent used quad made by ANYONE else.
This tells me that maybe 'Driving the Market and Leading Edge technology' has a lot to do with advertising hype than the real world in a lot of cases.
Example; Current Ski-Doo 2-Tec ads.
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I had to laugh when i was in the dealer to pick up my sled after the engine replacement. They sell Doos and Yamahas. I got my wife to check out one of the new Yamahas in the showroom. Nice sled (and she liked it too). 2 salesmen came running over and immediately started pulling her toward the Revs, telling her how much better the ride is, the rider position is more comfortable 
and how much better the sled was. i said we were Yamaha people and went back to the Yamaha. They kept pushing the Doos. My wife went and sat on one of those just to compare, and said her legs hurt...after less than a minute on the sled! Well that just proves that Doo must be having sales problems...the Yamahas are selling themselves, and the Doos need pushing. When the Rev style came out, the dealers couldn't keep them in the showroom, and anything else at the dealership was overlooked. Now things seem to be changing.
I think thats how it works with Honda. Their machines sell themselves and don't need all the hype and advertising. I will say that Yamaha bikes are pretty good also...and in the bike market, Yamaha and honda have always seemed to be very close with their designs and styles. Their 4-stroke dirt bikes have always been somewhat similar in quality and design.
I was just thinking about things a bit, and I do want to point out a few things for those who say Honda doesn't lead the market.
-Honda created the ATV market with the old ATC-90. Then they WERE the market with such models as their 110, 200, and Big Red a few years later.
-Honda came out with the Odyssey. Yea, sales weren't great, but it was a very cool machine, especially once they moved to full suspension and a 350 (and later 400) engine. They are still fun today, and they haven't been made in several years.
-Honda was alone in the 4-stroke dirt bike market for several years with their XR models in the 70's. They decided people wanted more than knobby tires on a street bike.
-Honda invented the true utility ATV market with the Big Red, and later the Fourtrax 250 utility model. Suzuki tried to compete, but their attempt was a joke, with an engine that sat too low and far back, causing very strange handling problems.
-Honda created the touring bike market with the GoldWing. There is no competition to this day.
-Their XR series have always been THE bike to beat at any desert event. Nobody has come close to the power, and moreso the RELIABILITY of those models, mainly the XR600 and now the XR650.
I know if they ever came out with a sled, expect it to be 4-stroke, and expect it to compete directly with Yamaha. I won't say it will be better than our sleds, but expect it to be very close, and cause Yamaha to stay on their toes.
Jim
and how much better the sled was. i said we were Yamaha people and went back to the Yamaha. They kept pushing the Doos. My wife went and sat on one of those just to compare, and said her legs hurt...after less than a minute on the sled! Well that just proves that Doo must be having sales problems...the Yamahas are selling themselves, and the Doos need pushing. When the Rev style came out, the dealers couldn't keep them in the showroom, and anything else at the dealership was overlooked. Now things seem to be changing.I think thats how it works with Honda. Their machines sell themselves and don't need all the hype and advertising. I will say that Yamaha bikes are pretty good also...and in the bike market, Yamaha and honda have always seemed to be very close with their designs and styles. Their 4-stroke dirt bikes have always been somewhat similar in quality and design.
I was just thinking about things a bit, and I do want to point out a few things for those who say Honda doesn't lead the market.
-Honda created the ATV market with the old ATC-90. Then they WERE the market with such models as their 110, 200, and Big Red a few years later.
-Honda came out with the Odyssey. Yea, sales weren't great, but it was a very cool machine, especially once they moved to full suspension and a 350 (and later 400) engine. They are still fun today, and they haven't been made in several years.
-Honda was alone in the 4-stroke dirt bike market for several years with their XR models in the 70's. They decided people wanted more than knobby tires on a street bike.
-Honda invented the true utility ATV market with the Big Red, and later the Fourtrax 250 utility model. Suzuki tried to compete, but their attempt was a joke, with an engine that sat too low and far back, causing very strange handling problems.
-Honda created the touring bike market with the GoldWing. There is no competition to this day.
-Their XR series have always been THE bike to beat at any desert event. Nobody has come close to the power, and moreso the RELIABILITY of those models, mainly the XR600 and now the XR650.
I know if they ever came out with a sled, expect it to be 4-stroke, and expect it to compete directly with Yamaha. I won't say it will be better than our sleds, but expect it to be very close, and cause Yamaha to stay on their toes.
Jim
I would put my Midnight Star Venture against the wing anytime.
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
nhrxrider said:
I've got one of these too (L model).....I've had owned lots of bikes, but this one, bar NONE is the most fun. It will do some crazy things on the street (a 600 crotch rocket will not even come CLOSE in the twisties)
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Next season I might be in the market for a dualsport, and the most reliable ones out there are the KLR650 and the Hondas. From all the research I've done, the KLRs haven't changed since the early 80's, are extremely heavy, way too soft suspension, and gutless motor that has almost no aftermarket power parts available. In comparison, the Hondas are light, agile, and powerful. Not quite as much adventure touring parts available, but still a much more fun bike.
Jim
Jim
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I've driven pretty much all of them, and the KLR has two things going for it. It is the cheapest of all of the 650 dual sports, and it is the most comfortable if you are going to sit on it for more than an hour at a time. I've got a couple of buddies with them and they are pretty reliable too. I wouldn't want to ride one on anything tougher than a gravel road.
If you're into serious off roading, but still want to ride on the street, the Suzuki DRZ400s is a serious piece of work. It's a rocket up to ~70mph (top speed is only about 75 ) and handles like a moto crosser. The seat is about as comfortable as sitting on the thin side of a 2X4 though.
The XR650L is a darn good compromise of both of the above bikes, BUT what would really ROCK is a street legal XR650R (with the liquid cooled engine).
If you're into serious off roading, but still want to ride on the street, the Suzuki DRZ400s is a serious piece of work. It's a rocket up to ~70mph (top speed is only about 75 ) and handles like a moto crosser. The seat is about as comfortable as sitting on the thin side of a 2X4 though.
The XR650L is a darn good compromise of both of the above bikes, BUT what would really ROCK is a street legal XR650R (with the liquid cooled engine).
dockter71
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2005
- Messages
- 13
I actually purchased my 03 RX1 from Honda R&D. It is clear as day on my origination paperwork. I picked it up through a employee with Honda. The sled was signed over to him. It had about 100 miles on it and came with California tags. I picked it up in 04. This employee said they tested several different brands that year.
bonzi88
Newbie
I am NOT brand loyal . Ran into a bit of money before winter & immediately sought & purchased a '05 Warrior & '05 Royal Star Venture. Being i wanted some new machines for the long haul....no hipe needed , the Yammies sold themselves.
If Honda had a snowmobile...i would have seriously looked into it.
Did buy a '05 Polaris 550 Classic for wife...only because light weight with the goodies.....and it will only see a max of 200-500 miles a year.
If Honda had a snowmobile...i would have seriously looked into it.
Did buy a '05 Polaris 550 Classic for wife...only because light weight with the goodies.....and it will only see a max of 200-500 miles a year.
Yama-Crazy
VIP Member
I agree if Honda came out with a sled I think and Honda probally already knows alot of people would be looking and me for one would be! But it would be hard for them to beat the already established forward roll Yammi has g 
oing now.....
oing now.....
I dont get it how hard would that be for them? They have dealers set up everywhere all they would have to do is address any problems that arise.
