Essarex
Pro
In the spirit of 'truth in advertising', there is no way any clutch weight can add 12 track hp over a factory calibrated peformance sled, like the Apex or Nytro. 12 at the track is 20 the crank, and converting 20 hp to heat instead of track motion, would melt the belt in 1 minute.
The dyno graph shows the stock Apex at a little over 70 track hp. This is an Apex in need of attention as even the 700 SRX made 80 track hp back in 2000. Any Apex should make 80 hp on any day, any dyno.
The dyno graph shows the stock Apex at a little over 70 track hp. This is an Apex in need of attention as even the 700 SRX made 80 track hp back in 2000. Any Apex should make 80 hp on any day, any dyno.
ptt
Guest
Essarex said:In the spirit of 'truth in advertising', there is no way any clutch weight can add 12 track hp over a factory calibrated peformance sled, like the Apex or Nytro. 12 at the track is 20 the crank, and converting 20 hp to heat instead of track motion, would melt the belt in 1 minute.
The dyno graph shows the stock Apex at a little over 70 track hp. This is an Apex in need of attention as even the 700 SRX made 80 track hp back in 2000. Any Apex should make 80 hp on any day, any dyno.
A stock apex makes 80-82 hp to the track, the graph you are looking at in the nytro.
Attachments
ptt
Guest
just to make clear the graph I just posted is a stock apex vs our clutched apex. Previous graph (on the other page) is the nytro.
scott32
TY 4 Stroke Guru
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
- Messages
- 758
- Location
- huron county, ontario
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 07 Apex RTX se, 09 Nytro XTX
Scott, do you have a dyno gragh of dnf vs stock for the apex as well to compare the gains of the super rats vs stock for apex. I see a 8 hp gain to the track on rats. Just wondering which kit is better for apex? It's obviously super rats for nytro. Thanks for this post I have been keen to see this. Cheers, Scott
ptt
Guest
scott32 said:Scott, do you have a dyno gragh of dnf vs stock for the apex as well to compare the gains of the super rats vs stock for apex. I see a 8 hp gain to the track on rats. Just wondering which kit is better for apex? It's obviously super rats for nytro. Thanks for this post I have been keen to see this. Cheers, Scott
The graph I posted is stock vs our drag/fly set up. We are hoping to have a 2011 apex on the track dyno soon.
In field testing our "new" clutch kit" is working better.
Thanks
Scott
Super Sled
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,631
- Location
- Riding on the North Shore, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Summit X
I think these Super Rats are the real deal. Very smooth engagement around the yard. Engaging no higher rpm's than Drag and Fly's.
I have a several hundred yard flat, straight trail (abandoned road, actually) near my house where I been running up and down with these the last few days. Very hard, packed snow. Great accelleration it seems with these weights, but nothing to compare it to (no other sleds and no timer or anything). Just by myself.
I've tried out 3.0 gram balls and 2.5 gram balls. 2.5 gram balls seem like they'll be the ticket. You can't hear any rattling going on with these. My Apex has never rattled anyways. I think that's a Nytro phenomenon, as I've heard rattling clutches with nytro's b4, but never Apex's.
I've not tried any of the tip weights you can add. There is actually 2 slots where you can add small weights up near the tip. Has anybody filled these yet? I haven't tried it and I'm wondering what people found when they filled those.....
Only spring I've run these with is my black HC spring and stock secondary.
I have a several hundred yard flat, straight trail (abandoned road, actually) near my house where I been running up and down with these the last few days. Very hard, packed snow. Great accelleration it seems with these weights, but nothing to compare it to (no other sleds and no timer or anything). Just by myself.
I've tried out 3.0 gram balls and 2.5 gram balls. 2.5 gram balls seem like they'll be the ticket. You can't hear any rattling going on with these. My Apex has never rattled anyways. I think that's a Nytro phenomenon, as I've heard rattling clutches with nytro's b4, but never Apex's.
I've not tried any of the tip weights you can add. There is actually 2 slots where you can add small weights up near the tip. Has anybody filled these yet? I haven't tried it and I'm wondering what people found when they filled those.....
Only spring I've run these with is my black HC spring and stock secondary.
Super Sled
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,631
- Location
- Riding on the North Shore, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Summit X
So I called Bender again as i was pretty confused about those dowel pin slots in the tips. Bender says those dowel pin slots were not inthe original design and most guys will not use them -- they are for turbo applications. Bender had the supplier retro-install those slots in final production for later adjustability for if the buyer later goes for big HP applications, he won't "outgrow" these weights.
But Bender is very exceited about these weights and is sorry they sort of rushed them into market without properly testing them first. They have a bit, and they found most guys will run a single 2.5 gram or 3.0 gram roller ball in each cavity. That is it. Per Yamadog1, start with 3.0 gram ball and see where your top WFOT rpm's are... if your not pulling 10,400 rpm's or higher on top, move to the 2.5 gram balls, which should raise it some.
And it seems most every one is using the black HC primary spring with these so far (Thx Bender, Turk, and Yamadog1!). Also stock seconday (Thx Turk!). I hope I got all this right -- please help me guys if I've erred.
But they (Bender that is) plan to really test these weights this summer once the dust settles. The supplier just demanded Bender get these things out there this year and Bender felt obligated to oblige them. So their point was there will be full scale testing by Bender this summer. They just haven't got there yet.
While it'd be nice to have pre-set "recipes" from Bender, at least we have guys like Scott from Boss racing (A testing mad man with these weights!!!!!), Turk, Yamadog1 (Rick) from MI, and others who are testing these and bringing them to market. If could do it all over again I'd do a better job of hounding Scott over and over and get them from him.
Such a big thanks to all of these guys who've helped answer my questions. Man TY is such an great place with fantastic people!!!!
But Bender is very exceited about these weights and is sorry they sort of rushed them into market without properly testing them first. They have a bit, and they found most guys will run a single 2.5 gram or 3.0 gram roller ball in each cavity. That is it. Per Yamadog1, start with 3.0 gram ball and see where your top WFOT rpm's are... if your not pulling 10,400 rpm's or higher on top, move to the 2.5 gram balls, which should raise it some.
And it seems most every one is using the black HC primary spring with these so far (Thx Bender, Turk, and Yamadog1!). Also stock seconday (Thx Turk!). I hope I got all this right -- please help me guys if I've erred.
But they (Bender that is) plan to really test these weights this summer once the dust settles. The supplier just demanded Bender get these things out there this year and Bender felt obligated to oblige them. So their point was there will be full scale testing by Bender this summer. They just haven't got there yet.
While it'd be nice to have pre-set "recipes" from Bender, at least we have guys like Scott from Boss racing (A testing mad man with these weights!!!!!), Turk, Yamadog1 (Rick) from MI, and others who are testing these and bringing them to market. If could do it all over again I'd do a better job of hounding Scott over and over and get them from him.
Such a big thanks to all of these guys who've helped answer my questions. Man TY is such an great place with fantastic people!!!!
Anyone test these weights with boost - 12 to 14 psi @ sealevel?
mrtwostroke
Expert
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2003
- Messages
- 226
- Age
- 57
- Location
- Sweden,Lulea
- Country
- Sweden
- Snowmobile
- Sidewinder MTX 240 Tune Sidewinder XTX 240 Tune MountainMax SL 153.
I´m waiting for my set from Scott for my xtx mcx180.(204hp with excell header on mcx dyno)
yamadog1
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
weights
super sled i'm from michigan sometimes i wish i was in canada, scott and turk are way over my head in clutching, the only thing that i have found is i like a bigger spring in secondary and that could be because i weigh 250lbs.
i like to play with clutching. i have tried 6 kits, and they all are close, i do not race so i like trail set-up, for me i like snappy midrange. and when i get 100mph it's enough for me.
super sled i'm from michigan sometimes i wish i was in canada, scott and turk are way over my head in clutching, the only thing that i have found is i like a bigger spring in secondary and that could be because i weigh 250lbs.
i like to play with clutching. i have tried 6 kits, and they all are close, i do not race so i like trail set-up, for me i like snappy midrange. and when i get 100mph it's enough for me.
Super Sled
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,631
- Location
- Riding on the North Shore, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Summit X
Thx Yamadog for all of your technical help and kind words. And I stand corrected! Oh, and I wish I lived in Canada also. Or Alaska or maybe even the North Pole. Could sled all year long!!!!!
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
well super sled you could move there
bottlerocket
Lifetime Member
Do they have snow there?
KevinS
Expert
bottlerocket said:Do they have snow there?
Yes we do. I am heading out to Scott's place on Sun to hopefully test a set of these weights.
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
Well, I bought a set of rat weights (2.5gram ball and black Heel Clicker spring) and tried them out yesterday... awesome improvement overall, great acceleration and pulls hard and consistent. I never got up to top speed due to conditions, so I can't comment on that.
I was worried about the engagement rpms at above 4500, however the engagement is not "herky jerky" off the line, nor does it cause trenching off the line. It just sounds a little odd that the engine is revving so high to start off, as my previous engagement was at about 3500 rpm...something I'll get used to I'm sure.
Again, it pulls hard and I'm loving my sled, finally getting it to perform how it should, ie. cornering, suspension, steering, comfort, etc. I had thoughts about selling it, even put it in my local classifieds, but I'm gonna hold onto it for another couple of years.
I was worried about the engagement rpms at above 4500, however the engagement is not "herky jerky" off the line, nor does it cause trenching off the line. It just sounds a little odd that the engine is revving so high to start off, as my previous engagement was at about 3500 rpm...something I'll get used to I'm sure.
Again, it pulls hard and I'm loving my sled, finally getting it to perform how it should, ie. cornering, suspension, steering, comfort, etc. I had thoughts about selling it, even put it in my local classifieds, but I'm gonna hold onto it for another couple of years.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 18
- Views
- 10K
- Replies
- 1
- Views
- 975
- Replies
- 8
- Views
- 2K
-
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.