QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
Ok guys, I remember reading a lot on here about ratcheting with the '03 RX-1's though I believe it was more common with the Mountain Sleds than with the Shorties. My question is this. Has this issue been resolved by Yamaha yet? As far as I know, the only fix to those sleds was to run the track tension extremely tight. Well, this obviosly costs both speed as well as slider life. So what is the deal? I just ordered an '05 Shortie and I would prefer NOT to run my track that tight. I also understand that there was also a problem where if you ran the track too loose that on braking it would basically "pile up" in the front of the tunnel and cause heat exchanger damage.
Have these issues been addressed now?
Have these issues been addressed now?
Mighty
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On my 03 RX-1 with 192 megabites racheting wasn't an issue after I tightened the track at 50 miles. My 04 Warrior never racheted at all.
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
MightyWarrior said:
How tight did you tighten it? How is your slider wear? Are you able to get 2000 miles out of a set of sliders?
YamahaRx-Warrior
Expert
I ran my track tight on my 2003 got 4000 miles and slider were not worn much at all.
There is people that have got over 10k on a set of slides.
New mono shock suspention should resolve any ratcheting issues.
MY warriors track will not ratchet on the trail but in deep snow it does and it's about 1.5 inched hanging.
Slides are about half warn out in 3000 miles.
When i tighten it back up no ratcheing will occor.
Justin
There is people that have got over 10k on a set of slides.
New mono shock suspention should resolve any ratcheting issues.
MY warriors track will not ratchet on the trail but in deep snow it does and it's about 1.5 inched hanging.
Slides are about half warn out in 3000 miles.
When i tighten it back up no ratcheing will occor.
Justin
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
YamahaRx-Warrior said:
What about the Mono Shock RA Suspension will fix this issue?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Its been my experience that track ratcheting can be caused by two things;
1) Having the track REALLY REALLY loose,
2) Too steep of approach angle.
Unfortunately, with RX1 you end up with both. The proaction skid, sadly, doesn't maintain track tension under compression, so tension increases somewhat as it is compressed. Also, the shallower the approach angle, the more of the drivers are in contact with the track (the track wraps around the drivers more). The stock approach angle on RX1 is EXTREMELY steep.
This ratcheting problem can be increased by having the control rods set for high transfer - for two reasons; one, high transfer means that there will be better traction (and more force going out against the drivers), AND, higher transfer setting will INCREASE THE APPROACH ANGLE.
With any luck, the new suspension won't be as bad for tension consistency, however, it appears to have the same approach angle.
Oh, here's a neat trick... to make your ride softer, loosen the track.
1) Having the track REALLY REALLY loose,
2) Too steep of approach angle.
Unfortunately, with RX1 you end up with both. The proaction skid, sadly, doesn't maintain track tension under compression, so tension increases somewhat as it is compressed. Also, the shallower the approach angle, the more of the drivers are in contact with the track (the track wraps around the drivers more). The stock approach angle on RX1 is EXTREMELY steep.
This ratcheting problem can be increased by having the control rods set for high transfer - for two reasons; one, high transfer means that there will be better traction (and more force going out against the drivers), AND, higher transfer setting will INCREASE THE APPROACH ANGLE.
With any luck, the new suspension won't be as bad for tension consistency, however, it appears to have the same approach angle.
Oh, here's a neat trick... to make your ride softer, loosen the track.
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
LazyBastard said:
LB, given all of this information, which I totally agree with, why do you suppose that Yamaha conitnues to equip the sleds with a track that has 2 out of every three windows closed? If they would use a positive drive track and appropriate drive cogs (for lack of the correct word) on the drive shaft this would not be an issue. I know it may save a few pounds but come on...
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Personally, I prefer internal drive and don't give a crap about full or partial clipping. With the right approach angle and consistent tension, it will never ratchet. External drive sprockets were obsolete in the 70's.
With the way I have mine set up now (see sig), the approach angle is excellent for no ratcheting, thing is that there is still (actually worse) inconsistent tensioning. I can have my track *really really loose* and it won't ratchet AT ALL, but I have mine *really really really really loose*. I'm going to be fabricating a live rear axle this summer that will take care of the tension. It'll drive off the lower control rods, so I'll have to fabricate new, stronger upper and lower control rods to support the extra pounding.
With the way I have mine set up now (see sig), the approach angle is excellent for no ratcheting, thing is that there is still (actually worse) inconsistent tensioning. I can have my track *really really loose* and it won't ratchet AT ALL, but I have mine *really really really really loose*. I'm going to be fabricating a live rear axle this summer that will take care of the tension. It'll drive off the lower control rods, so I'll have to fabricate new, stronger upper and lower control rods to support the extra pounding.
Waterboy
Extreme
Track Tensioning and Ratcheting
My 03 was not an issue once stet-up. I always run less tension than recommended and had no problem with 192 studs. Put 6000 miles on a set of slidders. Still not on wear mark when I changed to trade in sled.
My 04 warrior has not been a problem but I have not studded either.
I did hurt my slidders doing some shaved ice track runs. ( We have a radar track here that the operator uses a Zamboni on) Will be changing them with 4000 miles.
Basically what I'm saying is there is no problem here with proper set-up and lubrication.
My 03 was not an issue once stet-up. I always run less tension than recommended and had no problem with 192 studs. Put 6000 miles on a set of slidders. Still not on wear mark when I changed to trade in sled.
My 04 warrior has not been a problem but I have not studded either.
I did hurt my slidders doing some shaved ice track runs. ( We have a radar track here that the operator uses a Zamboni on) Will be changing them with 4000 miles.
Basically what I'm saying is there is no problem here with proper set-up and lubrication.
rx1mtn
Expert
I have a RX1 Mountain, and an other thing that will make the track ratchet is a lot of snow, DEEP snow. I think it is because of snow gets inside the track and makes it "walk" over the drivers.
I agree with LB, in that the external drive sprockets went out with the old sleds.
I run my track loose, with the track hanging down, I like the top of the drive lugs to be at the bottom of the slide, at the lowest part of the track that hangs down.
I havn't had 1 bit of ratcheting and I've been in some VERY deep snow on some VERY steep mountains. Slides last me about 1800 miles.
I agree with LB, in that the external drive sprockets went out with the old sleds.
I run my track loose, with the track hanging down, I like the top of the drive lugs to be at the bottom of the slide, at the lowest part of the track that hangs down.
I havn't had 1 bit of ratcheting and I've been in some VERY deep snow on some VERY steep mountains. Slides last me about 1800 miles.
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
LazyBastard said:
So, having just ordered my RX-1 and therefore not being able to examine it I am guessing the the drive is internal based on your comments earlier about attack angle and compression.
Why do you believe that Yamaha has not addressed the attack angle issue at this point? what would be the advantage of a steep attack angle? It would seem to me to provide mroe rolling resistance across the snow as well as more than likely provide a harsher ride. I mean if they were going to go design a whole new rear suspension you would think they would address this issue if it is a less than desirable thing.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
There are only two reasons for sticking with a steeper approach angle *that I can think of*; that it increases the length of track touching the ground, and that it provides more ski lift - both of which benefit only for drags. My 144 has a low approach angle, but has the same track footprint as a stock warrior. Stock warrior will hang right with me on hardpack, but in the deep stuff, it'll fall back FAST.
Yamaha *used* to use a shallower approach angle. My old sled (87 Exciter) has a much lower approach angle than RX. They changed to the steep approach angle in 90 or 91. BTW: that exciter is primarily stock, and it'll beat any equally tweaked vmax600 from ANY year by ~300 feet in 1/4 mile. Also, my RX1 goes *more than* two MPH faster with the 144" track than it EVER did with a 121 - less friction. In 1300 miles on the 144", the sliders are showing NO wear beyond what they already had.
Yamaha *used* to use a shallower approach angle. My old sled (87 Exciter) has a much lower approach angle than RX. They changed to the steep approach angle in 90 or 91. BTW: that exciter is primarily stock, and it'll beat any equally tweaked vmax600 from ANY year by ~300 feet in 1/4 mile. Also, my RX1 goes *more than* two MPH faster with the 144" track than it EVER did with a 121 - less friction. In 1300 miles on the 144", the sliders are showing NO wear beyond what they already had.
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
LazyBastard said:
Given a lower approach angle I certainly believe this. Along with the fact that your 144 has a different style of track than you had when it was a 121. A steep approach angle definitely provides more rolling resistance. When you hear guys talk about drag racing, they will either limit or completely eliminate rear suspension travel to go fatser. Because squeezing the rear suspension down effectively lowers the approach angle.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Not only does it lower the effective approach angle, it does it without reducing the footprint :!:
DIwarrior
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Well I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but with over 2,200 miles on the Warrior, it continues to ratchet. I've got the limiter straps pulled up about a 1/4 inch, and have the control rods opened up somewhat. FRA on soft, shock 2 clicks stiffer. No studs in the track and I've tightened it numerous times (weekly) to the manuals reccomendations. It seems to not ratchet for the first 60-80 miles, but then is back. It happens mostly on good hard pack when the track hooks up. Stutter bumps increase the problem. It's turned into a regular maintenance issue, my concern is messing up the drive lugs one of these days.
