Vector starting issues

[Snowaddict]

Ever since I got this '09 Vector it's been a p.i.t.a. to start and keep running upon the first start up of the day. It usually fires right up with full choke, but when I try to take the choke off it usually sputters & cuts out. Once the temperature light goes off & I proceed to grab the throttle, it will quit when I let off. Always does this when loading & unloading. Doesn't give me problems on the trail or while running. It ultimately slapped me in the face yesterday when it must've fouled a plug. I had it running until the temperature light went off & I shut the rest of the choke off (it was still on 1/4 because it shut off each time I tried taking it off all of the way. ) After changing plugs it fired right up. But again this morning I still fought with it. Seems so finicky. Is there a way or set routine on how to start these things? The local dealer said the choke should not be on the entire time until the temperature light goes out. I can't figure it out. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

[MBYammaHauler]

I have an 08 and I'll try sharing what I've come to learn. It needs to run a while at full choke at least a minute or so. Longer than a 2stroke. I then I cut it to about half or until the RPMs start to drop. If it seems to like its about to stall I give it just a touch more choke until the RPMs climb a bit (somewhere around half choke). I leave it there for abother minute or two then I start to close the choke slow enough to keep it running but not fast enough to let it stall. On all occasions but for a couple days when it was -20c outside the choke is fully closed before the temp light goes off. The idea is you don't want to add any more fuel than what you need. I find if I leave it at half choke too long it'll start to foul. There are a couple good threads on here if you dig around but this works for me. Good luck.

 

[pdiddy]

Clean your pilot jets.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Clean your pilot jets.

If I may suggest....don't bother cleaning the pilot jets...buy new ones. They're like USD6 each. Dang openings in the pilots are sooo small that how do you really know if they are clean?

Also suggest that you have the carbs sonic cleaned. The pilot circuit in these carbs are also very um....sensitive? Don't know the right word but the bottom line is that when it comes to the fuel system on the carb'd 3 cyl motors, "cleanliness is next to Godliness" LOL!!!

Another thought for the short term.....go to your local Fleet Farm or somewhere and buy a bottle of "Mechanic in a Bottle". Mix it up with the correct amount of gas and pour it in the tank. Let the sled run until it's good and hot then shut it off. Don't run it for a day or two then run it again until it gets hot. I'm generally not a fan of various snake oils but this stuff works. (thanks to MadMax for turning me on to this stuff!).

It will not (at least in my experiences with my 05 Vec) stop you from having to pull the carbs but it should improve the "coming off of choke" performance.

Different people have slightly different ways of starting these sleds when cold. Here's what I do:

1. Full choke until sled starts
2. Once sled is running (only a few seconds) I start slowly backing down the choke until the engine comes down to about 2000 RPM's. Usually this is about 1/2 choke (I have a digital temp gauge so i can watch the temp come up and this is an advantage IMO)
3. When the light is still on...just before it goes out....the engine tone changes...then the light goes out.
4. Turn the choke lever to full off right away and if you have to, "gently" give the engine a little gas to keep it running.
5. They key for me has been "gentle". If you burp it hard it usually dies and a plug(s) is fouled and you know what happens then.

The more gas you have to give it to keep it running after the light goes off, the dirtier your carbs are...especially the pilot circuit.

DO NOT EVER TOUCH THE THROTTLE WHEN THE CHOKE LEVER IS ON.....EVER!
sorry to shout.......

Also, once you have started your sled in the AM and are out riding for the day you should NEVER have to touch the choke. I can't remember 1 time in over 16K miles that I had to choke the sled anytime during the day of a trip. Even in -15F temps.

Just my .02!

 

[Snowaddict]

Thanks for the info. As for the pilot jets, I am not sure. This really has been an issue since day one. I doubt it came from the factory with dirty jets. Also, when I had it in for an oil change at the beginning of the year I asked about increasing the idle (thought maybe that was the issue, they said they would clean & synch the carbs. I would assume the pilot jets would have been cleaned at that time, but maybe not?

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Thanks for the info. As for the pilot jets, I am not sure. This really has been an issue since day one. I doubt it came from the factory with dirty jets. Also, when I had it in for an oil change at the beginning of the year I asked about increasing the idle (thought maybe that was the issue, they said they would clean & synch the carbs. I would assume the pilot jets would have been cleaned at that time, but maybe not?

Sent you a PM

 

[J1635]

if its been an issue from day one, your timing chain may have skipped a tooth, but your carbs definitely sound dirty, 4stroke is right you should never, repeat never have to touch the throttle while starting/choking. If you have never had any carb cleaning done and you've fouled plugs then you need to get those carbs pulled and cleaned, i would also have them sync'd since they probably need it. I know you said that they told you they would clean and sync the carbs but did they actually? And they may have cleaned the jets but who knows if they did a proper job. And if they truly did do a full carb service and you still have issues then i'd say your timing definitely skipped

Never heard of mechanic in a bottle, i use seafoam in every toy ive ever owned. mix half a bottle in the gas every 3rd or 4th fill, i've never had any carb issues requiring a full cleanup since i started using this stuff 5 years ago. It doesn't replace routine maintenance though... when you get all this stuff done i would suggest changing the fuel filters too, and maybe look a bit harder at where you get your gas. Water in the gas will give you the same symptoms

 

[Snowaddict]

if its been an issue from day one, your timing chain may have skipped a tooth, but your carbs definitely sound dirty, 4stroke is right you should never, repeat never have to touch the throttle while starting/choking. If you have never had any carb cleaning done and you've fouled plugs then you need to get those carbs pulled and cleaned, i would also have them sync'd since they probably need it. I know you said that they told you they would clean and sync the carbs but did they actually? And they may have cleaned the jets but who knows if they did a proper job. And if they truly did do a full carb service and you still have issues then i'd say your timing definitely skipped

Never heard of mechanic in a bottle, i use seafoam in every toy ive ever owned. mix half a bottle in the gas every 3rd or 4th fill, i've never had any carb issues requiring a full cleanup since i started using this stuff 5 years ago. It doesn't replace routine maintenance though... when you get all this stuff done i would suggest changing the fuel filters too, and maybe look a bit harder at where you get your gas. Water in the gas will give you the same symptoms

Good information as well. I do trust the dealer as my buddy works for them and he goes out of his way for me. That's not to say that his mechanics possibly could have told him they did it, but actually had not. I love seafoam! I do use it a couple of times during the season & when I put away for storage. From what you said, I'm a little light on the mix, though. I probably only have been using 1/4 bottle. Will have to check into the other stuff. Never heard of it before. Thanks

 

[J1635]

Good information as well. I do trust the dealer as my buddy works for them and he goes out of his way for me. That's not to say that his mechanics possibly could have told him they did it, but actually had not. I love seafoam! I do use it a couple of times during the season & when I put away for storage. From what you said, I'm a little light on the mix, though. I probably only have been using 1/4 bottle. Will have to check into the other stuff. Never heard of it before. Thanks

9$ a bottle i buy 3 and its good for the whole riding season. theres a post here on checking the engine timing, you can do it with a flashlight and a few tools yourself pretty easily, thats where i would start

http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/cam-chain-tensioner-replacement-3-cylinder-engine-05-07.90826/

 

[4strokeluvr111]

MIB and Sea Foam (which I use as well) are two entirely different animals.

If his chain skipped a tooth I don't think the engine would run good at any RPM or temp.

 

[J1635]

MIB and Sea Foam (which I use as well) are two entirely different animals.

If his chain skipped a tooth I don't think the engine would run good at any RPM or temp.

not according to other people here, especially during warmup

 

[Snowaddict]

Well, I clarified the carb & pilot jet cleaning with the dealer. So, maybe that's not the issue. They also clarified that you can touch the throttle when the temperature light is on, as long as the choke isn't. They didn't seem to believe me either that the choke can't seem to come off all the way without the engine cutting out. Oh well. I'm going to try the procedures you guys suggested & see what happens. Thanks again.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Well, I clarified the carb & pilot jet cleaning with the dealer. So, maybe that's not the issue. They also clarified that you can touch the throttle when the temperature light is on, as long as the choke isn't. They didn't seem to believe me either that the choke can't seem to come off all the way without the engine cutting out. Oh well. I'm going to try the procedures you guys suggested & see what happens. Thanks again.

What did you clarify with the dealer?

IMO....NEVER EVER touch the throttle when the light is on.

They didn't seem to believe me either that the choke can't seem to come off all the way without the engine cutting out. = if I read what you wrote correctly, that is plain BS. If the carb's are in need of cleaning and/or adjustment, the engine can kill when the choke is off and the light is off. Ask me how I know this......my 05 used to do the same thing!

 

[Snowaddict]

What did you clarify with the dealer?

IMO....NEVER EVER touch the throttle when the light is on.

They didn't seem to believe me either that the choke can't seem to come off all the way without the engine cutting out. = if I read what you wrote correctly, that is plain BS. If the carb's are in need of cleaning and/or adjustment, the engine can kill when the choke is off and the light is off. Ask me how I know this......my 05 used to do the same thing!

They reiterated that they cleaned the carbs & synched them, as well as jets.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

They reiterated that they cleaned the carbs & synched them, as well as jets.

Understand. Next time....or over the summer.....REPLACE the pilots.....don't bother trying to clean them. Cheap and easy to replace.