Waterproofing Apex/Attak

[Yamahammer485]

Hey all

Need to get this thing to cross water!, but it has a strange history.

First off, last year, ran water no problems at all, like at least 800m of water with no signs of slowing down or anything, and this was done so many times on different days. Then it started slipping when crossing shorter water at the same exact speed and entry, which just so happens to be well over 100km/h.

Then later in the season, same belt, same everything, running water much slower, such as shallow water on the lakes only a few feet deep around shore and in pressure cracks with water flying over the hood in waves and water everywhere. Enough water to soak myself and my boots, and the belt never slipped once, through all of that water.

All through the season my clutches were perfectly clean and had the 8dn belt. When the belt slips, the engine hits the rev limiter, and you can see steam come out the clutch side footwell. Over water, feels like someone slammed on the brakes. The belt is slipping in the secondary, as the primary is spinning the belt through the secondary and the belt flys so high out of the primary that the top of the belt leaves rub marks on the inside of my clutch cover

This year, its even worse.... It slips when going over all water, including watery sluch on lakes. Absolutle only thing that changed from last year was the clutching, with the secondary wrapped at 6 - 3. If it was wrapped 6 - 2, it would have more sideforce, and hold the belt better, so that may be an option for me, but any water getting in there is bad.

To give an idea of the water in there, all the foam near the bottom of the secondary is soaked and it drips out the bottom of the sled. Thinking that maybe the water was coming in from the front of the track in the bulkhead between the removeable little plastic panel (with philips head bolts, one attaches to running board), so siliconed that up and drilled a tiny hole in the lowest point to let any water drain out. Still resulted in slipping. Then siliconed the whole front part near the shock on the a-arm, and still gets water in there. Then duct taped every crack in all the removable panels for the entire length of the crack, and still water gets in there. Siliconed the little space where the heat exchanger hose enters the clutch compartment and still water is coming in. Also, siliconed a little round hole from the tunnel going directly into the clutch compartment.

Im thinking the absolute only way water is getting in now is from draining in through the running board, then somehow getting picked up by the secondary and onto the belt. But this is a big distance for water to magically fly up onto.

Can someone please tell me how to seal this clutch compartment up from water completely????

Sorry for the long post, but I am totally stumped, and need to run water to some riding spots and added security knowing your sled will make it through anything.

Thanks for any help!!!

 

[tttario]

Im thinking the absolute only way water is getting in now is from draining in through the running board, then somehow getting picked up by the secondary and onto the belt. But this is a big distance for water to magically fly up onto.

Since you have a open sproket where your speedo picks up it wouldn't be hard for water to get slashed up on your belt???????

Possibly leaking through drive shaft bearing housing onto your speedo sproket gear???

Trev

 

[ReX]

What about the header/exhaust area.

Water would be shot forwards by the top of the track and be thrown hard against the back side of the motor.

There is a heat shield covering the headers, but I don't think it makes anywhere near water tight seal.

My guess is there is a pile of water spraying into the cab area from this, hitting the back of the motor hard and then a water mist is getting everywhere under the tunnel.

I could be wrong - just a guess (based on working on the exhaust headers/donut gaskets right now)...

 

[aja636]

bust out some sheet metal/alum and start making a sealed compartment. Remove the clutches to do the back piece in one shot and start from there. Just a suggestion. A weekends worth of playing with some tin might save your sled from Davey Jones Locker.

aj

 

[Phazernut]

Best way to water proof it is to stay on snow...it is afterall a snowmobile

 

[ReX]

I was just re-reading this post and thinking of our experiences with water. Although I much prefer to stay on snow too, we too have run some long distances on water with our Apex sleds.

Even after about 1/2 a mile on water our belts haven't started to slip. We've done lots of short water crossings too and never noticed any belt slippage.

The foam insulation around the clutch did get soaked on that long water stretch though.

(note that although we were riding on water, there was solid ice 6-12" under the water - it still was not my idea of fun at all though)

One thing we did notice is the exhaust system doesn't like all the water and sudden shock cooling. Any exhaust area that is starting to leak rapidly gets worse when riding on a lot of water (especially cracks in the main pipe).

As far as changing the clutching to increase clamping forces, 6-3 would have more side force than 6-2.

Since you state you've run 800 m (1/2 a mile) many times before without issues and now you are seeing them, is there anything else that has changed?

What about engine/drivetrain temperature? Have the slipping times been with a colder sled or something?

The time we did that huge water crossing, we had been riding about 10 hours already that day in +10°C to +14°C weather and it had been pouring rain for the last 3-4 hours. There was lots of water everywhere to keep the drivetrain cool, but the sleds were more than fully warmed up.

 

[Yamahammer485]

Thanks for the replies!

Im going to check and see if any water can come in through the speedo gear, good idea!

I was also thinking of making a complete shroud for the clutches, but I want them to run cool, so its kind of a compromise.

Rex, you are right about the foam, mine is completely soaked and you can squeeze out lots of water after a run. Thanks for the info about the clutching, I didnt know that!

Nothing changed at all from last year when it was running water with no problems besides the new clutching and warmer temp. No change in rider position, or entry style or anything.

As for the exhaust, I had thought that as well, but there was abcolutley no moisture anywhere near the exhaust shroud, motor, belt cover or anything. It is strictly in the bottom.

For the temperature thing, you might be on to something, because when I ran long water before, it was very cold, but on other cold days, while trying to run long water, it would slip. But when I had waves of water coming over the hood and everything, those temps were way above 0C, most likely near +10C. In every case, the clutches and machine were well warmed up. INTERESTINGLY, I found a pattern last year, which was when the foam was dry, such as the first run across for the day, it would do it no problem, but on the second run it would slip. This means that the saturated foam no longer absorbs the water coming in and it gets on the belt.

Since posting originally, I noticed that I missed a place to silicone near the primary which is the small gap between the rvieted plastic and the aluminum bulkhead. I have never seen water come in from this place, but going to seal it anyways. Its the crack near the steering linkage rubber boot if your looking from the outside.

So now the plan is to seal up more stuff, check for little holes behind the secondary and make a little deflector that would deflect any water running off the running board toward a low spot (which would be where the heat exchanger hose enters the clutch compartment) From that low spot, I will make a section that will trap the water and make it exit out a little rubber tube. Hmmm, maybe some pictures are in order...

Everyones help is excellent, keep them coming! Its a total mystery why it runs water sometimes and doesnt on other days, but you guys help is making it closer to being solved! Thanks!!

 

[snoman]

water skipping is alot of fun.we do this every spring but idk about the apex and if u sink it wooo alot of work and drain water from motor and muffler and lines. try not to sink !