What to do with a 121 mono to head west

[kinger]

Hey guys just got back from haydays and had fun but we all decided were heading out west this will be my first time. Others in the group have gone year after year. so I have a question.

My 121" 240hp sled with a predator will do fine in the heavy snow we get here and picks the skis up at will in a field. However I think if I got into real deep stuff it would still trench.

I would like to do 144" extension and get either a 144" 1.25 predator like I got now and never swap again or possibly find a 2" paddle and mess around with the tunnel protectors and have to be able to put them back on for my trip to the icey trails of WI when I go back to a trail track with studs.

Doing some reasearch I understand why a 121" mono will not extend and relocate (136" extension and a setback)to a 144" without binding and even if it did will still have a steep approach angle and not float much better and still trench.

So help me out I do have a ZX2 laying around that I was probably going to swap but I wanted to ride the mono EC first and see if I like that. I never measured the difference on the approach angle with my Zx2 but it sure made my rx1 feel lighter in the deep stuff and floated well.

I'm not real sure what to do or what track to run out there I would like to take advantage of the power and go 2" but this will be 3 days of riding and then back to the flat lands and probably wont go out there again. It would be nice to avoid having to swap tracks but that is no issue if that is all I have to do, trying to remove then add tunnel protectors is not a real good option for me in the middle of winter. I will not run WI trails without studs so either way I will have them.

I would like to do a 144" tip up rail on the mono or I could do the 144" ZXtend but that is straight rails and I worry that would push hard in the area i like to go its a series of 180 degree turns and wears me out on a 121"!

Any thoughts on ways to get this baby to perform there and back here with minimal effort/cost?

 

[welterracer]

We rode out in Laramie wyoming with 121" sleds.. All we did was remove the rivets from the clutch weights .. But ours were stock sleds..

Conditions for us were very hard pack so getting around is not a big deal.. If its fresh snow out there you really need a mountain sled or dont even bother..

The 144 extions would help.. also get wider skis..

 

[gsxr]

rent the right sled , we spent lots trying and had the most fun on the real mtn sleds , and you will kick #*$&@.

 

[Viper_Dave]

Kinger, My 2 cents, forget the Mono and stick your ZX skid in at 144 and forget it. I run a 144x1.5 Crossover in mine with an Expert. I'll be putting in another drive axle with 8 tooth drivers and a 2-2.5 track. The aproach angle on the Mono is to steep for really deep snow. Mine did OK with the 136 Predator and the stock tunnel. Did better after the Hartman 144 extension for the one trip I rode it with the stock setup. After the change to the expert and the longer taller track, it was a blast. Still runs as fast as anyone else on the trails while at UP TY rides. Haven't ridden it in WI yet, and probably won't. I have Powderhounds with an addon from Scott Bergstrom and it'll turn on hardpack, loose or powder snow. With your 240 HP and deep snow, youl definitely trench like crazy with a 121. Good luck with your decision

 

[kinger]

Thanks guys, I do have the powder hounds so I'm anxious to see how they work, I wasn't impressed with the simmons, loved the C&A razors on trail but not off, so these seem like a good compromise.

I'm leaning towards the ZX2 since its bullet proof and would look sick being all black on my black GT tunnel.

Whats your thoughts on lug heights? I heard longer length trumps lug height. I found a rare 144" 6 pitch 1.25 predator at Haydays and was wondering if that would get me around out west, were thinking Togowotee so it will be deep powder.

I would rent a sled but you break it.. you buy it and you dont get to keep it!

I just think this thing is going to be a pig on the tight twisty trails in the hayward/cable area were I love to go. Better start working on the Bicep mod! LOL

 

[tkuss]

Yea its a hard choice. I kind of had the same problem when building mine.

I think the amount of fun out there you would have with a 144 by 2" lug and 240hp would be worth the work of getting a big lug track and swapping it out. There are many 16" wide by 144" used tracks from older ski-doo summits to be had on snowest for 200-300$ to save a bit of money. But then also some minor mods need to be made in order to get it to fit in the tunnel without rubbing bolts and rivets.

I know the feeling of not wanting to be swapping out tracks and working on the sled in winter though when there is riding to be had.

Another option which maybe would be cheaper and work better is getting a big lug 121" track. Like a snocross track or something. That way you don't have to do the whole extension thing. And not like I know for sure, but I am thinking a 240hp 121" by 1.75" track will get you places you need to go on the mountains. Won't be good for boondocking at low speeds as you will probably trench in and get stuck lots at low speeds.

Also unless you run studs, don't know if you do, I wouldn't worry about putting the tunnel protectors back in.

A 144" by 1.25" will get your power to the ground here in the midwest better as well, and still probably do well out west.

Big lugs, long tracks and big power is how to have lots of fun out west.


Seems like you know all the info you need already, just got to make the decision.

Good luck,
let us know what you decide on.

 

[kinger]

Only mod for 2" track is tunnel protector removal correct?

I run lots of studs when around here so if I did go 2" I would have to figure out how to get teh stud protectors back in (welded on the front exchanger is a PITA!)

How big will fit without removing the protectors? 1.5"

They do make a 121" paddle track but then in the same spot with the stud protectors.

Not sure what I want to do yet. Tkuss you planning on riding that thing around here with the 2" or swapping back out for something lower profile?

 

[tkuss]

I decided on running the 1.75" backcountry track all the time, for out west and around here. Don't know exact details how big a track can fit with tunnel protectors. But I do believe a two inch will fit with 9tooth drivers when the protectors are removed.

Also the front heat exchanger protectors are welded on the heat exchanger. I had to grind them off, it would be hard putting them on unless you are really skilled at welding.

 

[yamahaboy701]

I was thinking about this because you do not want to take the tunnel protectors out if you run studs but if you want to run a tall track you would have to remove them. What if you cut a 2" track down where the protectors are? Arctic cat tracks are cut down for the tunnel protectors so I would see no reason on why you could not cut a 1.5" by .6" out of a lug if is going to hit the protectors. I have never seen this done but it would be possible I believe.

 

[thegrizzly1]

My $.02

I purchased an 07 RTX with the intention of stretching it right from the beginning. I went right for the 144" ZX-2. Around northern MN and the UP I generally run a 144" ripsaw 1.25" lug. I still had a new 2"x144" challenger left over from my mountain max days and I will swap that on when I go out west. Feb. of 08 I was back out in Togwotee with that setup and I was very impressed. Not the most capable mountain sled out there, but certainly not the least either. With 240 HP you will want to go with a taller lug for sure. Longer is obviously better as well. I swap tracks when I go out, and I have it down to about a 1 hour job with a helper. I know you want to avoid swapping tracks, but you will have a lot more fun if you take the time and do it.

In 07 I went to Togwotee with an RS Nytro, 1.5"x121 ripsaw and venture skis up front. I rode the sled for a half day and was so disgusted I rode a friends spare F7 the rest of the trip. My 08 trip with the Apex was better beyond comparison. If one were to get a little creative you could come up with a way to make your tunnel protectors removable and be able to but them back on or just rivet them back in, but that's another story. PM me if you need some ideas on that.

I bought an extra axle and had a set of 8 tooth drivers I pressed on, so when I change out a track, I swap the axle with it. I do wish I had a fully clipped Challenger with extroverts. With the HP you are running I think you are going to have a big problem with ratcheting.

I'll throw out another option to you. If you decide to go with a 144" and don't want to spring for 2 new tracks, I still have a 141"x2" Yokohama off of my Mountain Max you can have. You can butcher it up any way you want to clear your protectors. I figure it would be no more than $25 to get it shipped to you. It's not real pretty, but for 1 week out at Togwotee it would work just fine. Let me know.

You can put a deep lug shortie on your sled and still outclimb a lot of sleds with your HP, but the secret is to never stop! Once you do you'll go down fast! Also, make sure you have something big up front for skis. Stockers just don't cut it with a heavy sled like ours, not out west. I bought a set of skis for a RS Viking and associated hardware. They look like clown feet on my sled but they help it float.

 

[kinger]

Mmm that is some good advice guys. I like the idea of cutting the lugs on a taller track.

Here is the equipment that I have between my old sled and my new one and I would like to try and get some combo to work for me:

axle with 9T extroverts
axle with 10T extroverts
121" predator 1.25" lug 144 studs
121" hacksaw 1" 280 studs
06 mono GT rear suspension 121"
Zx2 rear suspension 121"
Powder hound skis (slydog)
rear shortie version heat exchanger (not sure what to do with this on a extension, move it out to back of extension or go to a 136" version the heat exchanger and tuck it up in the extension with some mods like ulmer did)

To make a extension work I need to extend the mono or the Zx2. Mono extension are $160 Zx2 are $300

I'm assuming the aproach angle of the Zx2 is better then the mono any chance anyone could meaure thier Zx2? If not I'll mock it up and measure it sometime.

Grizz - you ran the 144 ripsaw and said it did ok? I found a 144 predator (discontined now because of cobra but they rule in the deep compared to a ripsaw) I'm slowly leaning towards that 144" predator and calling it a day. But like you said it would be so much more fun if I had the traction of a 2" track.

Another option I'm thinking about is a 153 out of a nytro they are cheap skids and going real big but then have to futz with teh tunnel extension and shorten it somehow when I got back as I would not want to run a 153, but the skid is cheaper then extensions for either of my skids!

Keep ideas rolling this helps me a lot.

 

[thegrizzly1]

Sorry for the confusion, I use the Ripsaw around here, (Northern Mn.) I use a 2" challenger out west. I know the predators are better than the ripsaw, but I don't think you would be happy out west with it.

Myself, I would lean towards the ZX-2. I have been real happy with mine. There is a lot of information out there on them. Read up!

For $300, you could buy the ZX-tends for whatever length you want. Be advised though, once you reach a 151" or longer, the ZX-2 comes as a single shock unit. If you go with a twin shock unit that long, all of your leverages change drastically and the ride quality could suffer greatly. For 1 week in deep snow, it may not be an issue for you. The real beauty of the ZX-2 is you can go back and forth from short track to long track mode by removing the extenders. With all other rail extension kits I have seen once you extend a rail, that's it. There is no going back to stock. That was my personal experience when extending a MM700 from 141" to 144". I had to cut out part of the slot the rear idler shaft went through. I don't have an angle finder, but from the attached pictures, I believe the approach angle is decreased from stock with the ZX-2. If you are adamant about staying with studs, you will definitely want to leave in your protectors.

My personal belief is Yamaha should have never put the 4cyl in a short track sled. Too much power and not enough hookup. I've never been a fan of studs because of the damage they can do. (Both mechanical and bodily!) That's just my opinion. I have always preferred a longer track machine for better control and better bump bridging capabilities.

Yes, 153" skids and tracks may be relatively inexpensive, but ask yourself a couple of questions. Why are they getting rid of them to begin with, what would it take to get it in my sled, and once I put it in, where can I go from there? I'm pretty sure if you were getting a track/skid out of a Nitro MTX, your drivers are useless. The 153" has a 3" pitch. Better make sure you get a set of drivers as well. Again I highly recommend extroverts with whatever you wind up running. Unless you have something with a drop and rolled chain case, your 10T extroverts are pretty much useless. To go with a stock chain case/tunnel, you almost need 8 tooth if you go larger than a 1.5" track. Aside from the length, if you do go 153", what are your track options for local riding? Not nearly as many as a 121", 136" or 144". You said the 153" skid is cheaper than either extension option, what about a track and compatible drivers, where does that put the cost?

If it were me, I would go with the ZX-2 option, and I think it could be your least expensive option. I also think it leaves you with the most flexibility. Assuming you have the mounting kit with it, you can install the ZX-2 for nothing. You already have tracks and drives that work. If you want to go longer for your trip out west, you spend $300 for the ZX-tends. You can have my 141" track for the cost of shipping it and you should be able to make it work. You can cut it up as desired to clear your tunnel protectors. You can buy your 144" predator and head out there with that, and not have to mess with anything but the ZX-tends. With either of these options, for one week (really only 4-5 days of riding) and you planned on going back to a 121", I wouldn't mess with a tunnel extension. You can do something makeshift for one week in deep snow. BTW, in 2003 I went to Togwotee with a MM700, and a 144" predator 1.25". I really cant give you an honest opinion on how it worked though. I tried one of the Holtzman ATTAC (altitude and temperature compensators) and the sled didn't run for crap. I rented 3 days and on the 4th, I used mine, but it was trail riding all day at mostly lower elevations. I never got to really try it in deep snow. The next year I went out with the same sled, but used the factory suggested jetting for that elevation and I put on the 2" challenger. Awesome!

If you decided to stay with a 144" you could purchase the predator and stud it for your local riding and try it out west, find a deal on something bigger or pick up my Yokohama. If you decide to stay with the 144" configuration I would suggest a tunnel extension. You should be able to do that for $150 or less.

Below are a few pics of my sled with the ZX-2 and one picture of my "Clown Feet" next to a REV.

 

[kinger]

I love your sled grizz, the only sled with yellow on it I like, I normally hate the yellow but yours looks sweet.

Thanks for the offer on the 141! The ZX2 doesn't have 141" as a option but I suppose I could do a 136 and do a set back?

I think I am leaning towards a ZX2 144 with cheap track that I will hack up the lugs to clear the protectors. Then run a 144 studded predator back here and hope I can steer this baby in the tight , icey, turns I love so much in WI!

 

[Srxspec]

The mono approach angle is 22.5 degrees. If it were me I would not do a set back at all. That seems to make the front ends on these 4-strokes even heavier and you will hate it in the trails!

 

[kinger]

Hey allen, I agree I dont think a set back is what I want since the majority of my miles are on the trail. I wish I knew the approach angle of the ZX2. 22.5 degrees doesn't seem half bad for the mono, if a guy tightend the limiter strap all the way when out west would it get close to the 18 degrees yamaha thinks is so great?

Thanks guys this one trip is going to get expensive I fear!