Why not tube frame sled????

[bottlerocket]

Can you imagine the jigs it would take.....

 

[Ak Yammy]

Redline was such a neat sled it's too bad it didn't get up and going. Lots of info here: http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/3 ... dline.html
May have to be a member to read. He did say somewhere in there that the Redline was heavy due to the tube chassis.

 

[5valve]

Tube frame

Tubing is heavy!

Yup, it is. And that is why the upright tubes on the Pro-RMK are Carbon Fiber. Sounds expensive.

Everything on sleds is getting more $$.
The Redline Revolt looks like it was very light especially if coli overs were ditched in favour of floats .... curious as to the weight compared to newest generation of sleds. Consider that the old scoot / sports have been beat on for 20+ years and generally abused by adult riders (great vid on snowest with about a dozen + scoots racing around a track derby style) and the frames still held up!


Yes chromoly is more expensive but so are most of the other elements ... as for skinning tunnel / engine compartment / etc. smc (thermo molder plastic would be great and would likely have fewer icing issues and is cheaper than aluminium. All of the high strength bolts and fasteners used to hold all of the components together add weight and production cost as well. Would be interesting to see a comparison of new gen sleds broken down by component to see exactly where the weight is.

I have a Redline, and it is not light! It's very heavy. You can't even pick up the rear. The suspension never leaves the ground because a man could never lift it high enough. I can't even imagine having to turn it around on a trail due to a fallen tree blocking the trail, or, whatever. The electrical is "delicate" because it's not fully developed. It's a prototype. The "finsh" isn't even close to production quality. Nothing really performs well on the sled. I could go into great details, but, it would go on and on, and on and on. It's a prototype. Like a custom car. Kool to look at, but, not really usable. It is kool to look at. But I won't ride it.

 

[couch]

Re: Tube frame

Tubing is heavy!

Yup, it is. And that is why the upright tubes on the Pro-RMK are Carbon Fiber. Sounds expensive.

Everything on sleds is getting more $$.
The Redline Revolt looks like it was very light especially if coli overs were ditched in favour of floats .... curious as to the weight compared to newest generation of sleds. Consider that the old scoot / sports have been beat on for 20+ years and generally abused by adult riders (great vid on snowest with about a dozen + scoots racing around a track derby style) and the frames still held up!


Yes chromoly is more expensive but so are most of the other elements ... as for skinning tunnel / engine compartment / etc. smc (thermo molder plastic would be great and would likely have fewer icing issues and is cheaper than aluminium. All of the high strength bolts and fasteners used to hold all of the components together add weight and production cost as well. Would be interesting to see a comparison of new gen sleds broken down by component to see exactly where the weight is.

I have a Redline, and it is not light! It's very heavy. You can't even pick up the rear. The suspension never leaves the ground because a man could never lift it high enough. I can't even imagine having to turn it around on a trail due to a fallen tree blocking the trail, or, whatever. The electrical is "delicate" because it's not fully developed. It's a prototype. The "finsh" isn't even close to production quality. Nothing really performs well on the sled. I could go into great details, but, it would go on and on, and on and on. It's a prototype. Like a custom car. Kool to look at, but, not really usable. It is kool to look at. But I won't ride it.

Looks are deceiving ... but it was a prototype so ....

[/quote]
cannondale27
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:26 pm Post subject:
Its also a matter of getting everything in proper position.When you weld any type of box shape out of tubing you get pulling and may not end up with a box when done.Aluminum tubing is even worse than moly or steel for this.It can be done but I believe only by hand and no where near fast enough for production.

Not sure of this .... seems like a lot more quads being produced / sold than sleds .... plus just as there are numerically controlled plasma / water jet / lazer cutting tools there are also numerically controlled tube formers. Everything iin production / manufacturing is a trade off ... the old "you can have any two of the three .... lightweight / low cost / high quality" still applies.

 

[bottlerocket]

Are you comparing sleds to quads?

 

[Vmax540]

why didnt redline catch on? ive watched them in the old sledneck vids and it was a dream sled for a while.[

Because I bought stock.......

 

[nate007]

I've also got a Redline, and just as 5valve says, it's a heavy pig..
I've also got enough extra pieces to put together 3 more chassis, but don't have motors, electrical, tracks, skis, etc..
The sled is definitely a neat sled to have, but I like to compare it to owning a DeLorean. Really neat, has alot of things that were way ahead of it's time, but too many quirks to be reliable. Mine has charging issues, and if ridden for more than 15 minutes, it won't start again. (left me stranded in Jan)
Redline did things the way they did simply because they wanted to be different. They wanted to solve all of the issues with sled of the time, and did everything they could to not copy anything. They were originally off-road and jet ski guys, which shows with a few things on the sled. The way I was told, was that the redline guys were geaed up to build approx 400 sleds, but were millions of dollars behind before they could ever get the business off of the ground, and at the time, the market just wasn't there for a 12-15k sled..

I don't know if I'd agree with 5valve that they're fit and finish isn't as good though. Function is where it needed help, but there isn't a plastic bushing in the whole sled, and all of the suspension is 100% billet with bronze bushings, robust rod ends, tie rods, etc. I think I'd have a hard time breaking anything on the chassis, assuming the electrical, etc would hold up long enough to beat on it.

I rode mine in January on some un-groomed trails in the U.P., and after riding the same trails on my Nytro XTX, I thought I was bashing trails on a sofa compared to the XTX.. 2' moguls are nothing for it, but you're in a different riding position on the Redline, and standing while riding is akward at best.

 

[actionjack]

My dealer has a Redline. It was underpowered and they were underfunded. The exhaust looks like something a shop student made.

There have been a few tube built Nytro threads I believe.

 

[couch]

Redline is old teck ... like comparing a new car to a model T ...
this is what was meant / intended by a Tube chassis .... why can't OEM's offer something like this ....

 

[5valve]

I've also got a Redline, and just as 5valve says, it's a heavy pig..
I've also got enough extra pieces to put together 3 more chassis, but don't have motors, electrical, tracks, skis, etc..
The sled is definitely a neat sled to have, but I like to compare it to owning a DeLorean. Really neat, has alot of things that were way ahead of it's time, but too many quirks to be reliable. Mine has charging issues, and if ridden for more than 15 minutes, it won't start again. (left me stranded in Jan)
Redline did things the way they did simply because they wanted to be different. They wanted to solve all of the issues with sled of the time, and did everything they could to not copy anything. They were originally off-road and jet ski guys, which shows with a few things on the sled. The way I was told, was that the redline guys were geaed up to build approx 400 sleds, but were millions of dollars behind before they could ever get the business off of the ground, and at the time, the market just wasn't there for a 12-15k sled..

I don't know if I'd agree with 5valve that they're fit and finish isn't as good though. Function is where it needed help, but there isn't a plastic bushing in the whole sled, and all of the suspension is 100% billet with bronze bushings, robust rod ends, tie rods, etc. I think I'd have a hard time breaking anything on the chassis, assuming the electrical, etc would hold up long enough to beat on it.

I rode mine in January on some un-groomed trails in the U.P., and after riding the same trails on my Nytro XTX, I thought I was bashing trails on a sofa compared to the XTX.. 2' moguls are nothing for it, but you're in a different riding position on the Redline, and standing while riding is akward at best.

By the way... I'm Litre1000 on HCS. I would agree, at this point in time, the fit and finish of the Redline is .... is ... SEXY. I sold my "Wisconsin-Sleds" because they just seem like crap compared to the Revolt. I wish the Redline was more trail-friendly because of the way it FEELS. It is a more capable sled in the rough than anything I've ridden. Mainly because of its weight and suspension. All that travel does play into the way the sled sled dispenses with common trail junk. I'll keep developing my Redline to increase it's reliability because it's just so damn Kool to ride. Tube-chassis sleds are superior because of the "solidness" they exude as you ride them.... in my opinion, of course...regardless of the seating position.

 

[actionjack]

Almost looks like a Sno Scoot with an Expert X. Angle of attack of the track looks awesome for planing up on the snow.

 

[nate007]

They do have great deep snow ability as well with the shallow approach angle, but the components are just plain beefy. I haven't weighed mine yet, but I'll say with relative certainty that it weighs more than my Apex. It surprisingly doesn't feel heavy at all while riding it though.
The entire rear suspension attaches to the chassis near the front of the seat with two very robust arms that are very close together, and the rails are under alot more stress than what other sleds do. The rails are just over 36" long including the curve, and are right at 1/2" thick. Everything is built so much heavier than anything else. It works, but without reverse, you'd better hope you don't have to back up.. If I lift the back of the sled, I have to cross my arms under the exhaust and lift it approximately to my chest before the track comes off the ground. If I were to ever end up getting it buried, forget it. Call in the helicopter or wait until spring.. Lol

 

[timebomb]

What does the redline run for a motor?

 

[nate007]

This is mine, but I don't have any motor pics on my photobucket right now. I'll get some as soon as I get the sled unloaded from the trailer and back in the shop.

It's their own 800 twin motor, but it doesn't look like the architecture is that much different from others, other than the wiring is all connected via one large plug on the side of the motor. i think mine has been modified though, just from the way it sounds and runs.
The carbs are unique from what other 2 stroke guys have said (I'm not a big 2 stroke guy). They're a pair of rack mounted 44mm Mikunis with a funky linkage between the two.

I'll get more pics of it added to PB, and post some soon.

 

[nate007]

5valve, sent you a pm..