Yamaha 4s or Ski-doo ETEC 600?

[kviper]

Myself and a friend went through the new E-Tec 600 118 to 120 HP yesterday. It has a normalized emission rating (scale of 1 to 10) of 2.6, Apex is 1.2- 150HP, Nytro is 1.6-138HP, so it is not cleaner than any Yamaha 4 stroke sled. We asked the sales people to show us these plug's that are good for 6,000 mi. After 1/2 hr we determined that the driven clutch had to be removed so you know what that means, Remove chain case and jack shaft.They didn't even want to take the clutch guard off for fear that they werent trained to put it back on, LOL. IMOP the XP chasis is a huge embarrassment to Doo. Light weight is the only thing Doo has for a selling point, they went in head first and it show's. This sled just looks cheap from end to end. I realy don't like cuting other MFG's stuff down on the net but after looking this sled over closely all i can say is cheap and not acceptable. Hope no one gets wized at me for this but there was a Nytro seting aside of it, Like night and day!!!

 

[FxsX24]

yeah the XP-RS is setup like poo, takes 4 hours to change a chaincase (as per a factory team's experience)

the brake rotor is another issue with changing it, the track is a PITA to change


did i read correctly that the secondary is in the way to change a plug?

i think doo needs a one piece fiberglass hood/cowl, then you could get to #*$&@

 

[Genesis Extreme]

Just keep in mind that the failing engines are limited to brp. Yamaha and Mercury both make DFI outboards. The older mercs had a problem of dropping the injector valve into the cylinder, but that problem seems to have been solved. The Yamaha DFI's have been absolutely bullet proof right from the first year. *EXCELLENT* engines. Reliable, long lived, and very quiet. They are so close to 4-strokes that I would consider them equal.

Don't make the mistake of using the (low) quality of brp to judge other similar products. The DFI 2-stroke sled is a *great* idea, if only it wasn't brp, I might buy one.[/quote


LB....not trying to stir things up....but again.....the Merc XS and Yam HPDI BOTH have problems just like BRP. And all 3 continue to have their growing pains to get lower emissions.

The other item you should check out is how the public is being taken care of by the respective manufactuer when their motor goes...POP. If you honestly researched it........you would find that BRP is heads and shoulders above Merc. and Yam. BASED on ACTUAL feed back from their respective customers.

Again.........I love my Yamaha Attak and would never go back to a 2 stroke......but I don't feel we should all be blinded by BLUE.

GE

 

[Genesis Extreme]

Oh, and another thing that these bass boat owners do.... they run the engines too high out of the water so that they suck air. Again, no cooling = kaboom.


Bass boats represent a minority of outboard engines and as a result, failures in this LIMITED MARKET do not indicate problems with the line. The majority are on salt-water boats, run within their safe operating range, and mounted deep enough to consistently suck up only water.

Based on what FACTS? You have stated ONE thing that CAN happen to an outboard motor to cause it to fail......and then BLAME it on a "Group" of individuals?? This is NOT what has been causing engine failures of late.

I sense your intense resentment towards bass fishermen in general.......that is perfectly fine....to each their own. But being around outboards for 20 years.....I felt compelled to chime in on the subject.....but I have no intentions of getting into a heated argument when we clearly will never agree.

Oh.....and one item I forgot. Yes..the HPDI is Yam's top of the line outboard You misunderstood what I was trying to say because I typed "DFI" and meant to type "EFI". Yam's EFI motors have a great track record......but then again... so do the other manufacturers.


GE

 

[tkuss]

Does anybody know if Doo's two strokes such as the SDI are cleaner than Yamaha 4 strokes?

 

[kviper]

Does anybody know if Doo's two strokes such as the SDI are cleaner than Yamaha 4 strokes?

No they are not!! Read my post above.

 

[rightarm]

Does anybody know if Doo's two strokes such as the SDI are cleaner than Yamaha 4 strokes?

Thet would like to think so,that's about as close as there are going to get!

 

[welterracer]

Everyone seems to think so,,, my buddy told me last night that the doos burn cleaner than our sleds because he read it in a magazine.. LOL

 

[LazyBastard]

Oh, and another thing that these bass boat owners do.... they run the engines too high out of the water so that they suck air. Again, no cooling = kaboom.


Bass boats represent a minority of outboard engines and as a result, failures in this LIMITED MARKET do not indicate problems with the line. The majority are on salt-water boats, run within their safe operating range, and mounted deep enough to consistently suck up only water.

Based on what FACTS? You have stated ONE thing that CAN happen to an outboard motor to cause it to fail......and then BLAME it on a "Group" of individuals?? This is NOT what has been causing engine failures of late.

I sense your intense resentment towards bass fishermen in general.......that is perfectly fine....to each their own. But being around outboards for 20 years.....I felt compelled to chime in on the subject.....but I have no intentions of getting into a heated argument when we clearly will never agree.

Oh.....and one item I forgot. Yes..the HPDI is Yam's top of the line outboard You misunderstood what I was trying to say because I typed "DFI" and meant to type "EFI". Yam's EFI motors have a great track record......but then again... so do the other manufacturers.


GE

What I'm saying is really simple;
BRP break MORE OFTEN.

EVERYTHING can break, no matter what. No exceptions. This is an attempt at quantifying the RATE at which engines built by particular manufacturers fail WHEN OPERATED WITHIN SPECIFIED GUIDELINES.

Your perspective is limited to observations of the bass boat crowd. I do not by any means resent that crows, all I'm saying is that they're NOT REPRESENTATIVE of anything, particularly since they are a "performance" segment where a significantly higher proportion of owners run their equipment outside of specified conditions, ie jacked up high or over their redline. They can usually get away with this because if their engine blows up, they're a short paddle from safety.

Now you start going to places where engine durability is paramount, like SALT WATER BOATS, where you can be running within, oh I don't know, SIGHT OF CUBA, you'll see one thing stand out.... THERE ARE NO BRP ENGINES! Why? Because they blow up even when operated under manufacturer's directives. How do I know this? Because as someone who has operated SALT WATER BOATS for 18 years, and knowing someone who has run a business renting and chartering boats to tourists for 30 years, I've seen it.

When an engine failure means that you might DIE, you don't depend on an engine that will probably blow up.

 

[kviper]

Everyone seems to think so,,, my buddy told me last night that the doos burn cleaner than our sleds because he read it in a magazine.. LOL

Just tell him to go to his Doo dealer and check the tag hanging on the bars and then go to a Yami dealer and check the Yamaha's. The E-Tec 120 HP is more than twice as dirty as the 150HP Yamaha. 1.2 Apex, 2.6 E-Tec. kviper

 

[kviper]

I was at the dealer today again for some slid's for the Apex and looked at the E-Tec some more, I think the plug's could be changed from behind the driven clutch but you would want to be very careful not to cross thread, Or it may be easier to remove the seat,gas tank and air box. Still it is what it is.

 

[rightarm]

As of right now all "Yamaha motors meet the 2010 EPA expectations.The reason that BRP realised the E-TEC is more than likely that will be the only motor in there line up so far to meet 2010 EPA,the question is beyond 2010 emissions are to be cut by another 25% which Yamaha has this well taken care of.It's entertaining to watch the other Manufacturers scramble for the fences to meet the EPA regulations.Good Luck too all but I have no worries I'll be riding a Yamaha.